Just a bit of feedback regarding the range displayed on the phone app for the Ampera. A full charge currently displays a range of about 22 miles. This is probably a bit over half the real range and well below the estimated range on the car dash.
That's odd because i've just noticed that in the past few days - the range now being displayed on my Volt, which used to be as you described, is now quite acurate? Steve. Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 08:58:56 +0000 From: paul@churchley.org To: ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk Subject: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range Just a bit of feedback regarding the range displayed on the phone app for the Ampera. A full charge currently displays a range of about 22 miles. This is probably a bit over half the real range and well below the estimated range on the car dash. _______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
Seems to be a hard-coded constant: va_drive_distance_bat_max = MiFromKm(35); // initial Battery distance in km I think we could be a bit 'smarter' with this - particularly given the 'ideal' and 'estimated' range indicators we have. Any ideas? Regards, Mark. On 22 Jan, 2014, at 12:17 am, Steve Gadd <ste_gadd@hotmail.com> wrote:
That's odd because i've just noticed that in the past few days - the range now being displayed on my Volt, which used to be as you described, is now quite acurate?
Steve.
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 08:58:56 +0000 From: paul@churchley.org To: ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk Subject: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range
Just a bit of feedback regarding the range displayed on the phone app for the Ampera.
A full charge currently displays a range of about 22 miles. This is probably a bit over half the real range and well below the estimated range on the car dash.
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev _______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
In my experience the range from 100% in ideal conditions rarely exceeds 50 miles. It does occasionally and many have done well over that but for the vast majority, for the vast majority of the time, an ideal conditions range is 50 miles. We have the SOC% so can we not simply use that to adjust the ideal range? My normal range varies from about 45 miles to about 30 miles depending on temp, speed etc so can we just adjust the ideal range by say, 4/5 to give typical range? I realise that these are not scientific ways to estimate range but perhaps that is about as good as we can expect for now? We can adjust these multipliers once we have had a chance to test it out. Could we use parameters to set a personal 100% ideal range and 100% typical range? The module could then provide a personal range based on our personal parameters and as we get better (or worse!) as EV driving so we could then adjust our personal preferences and tune our own personal range. On 22 January 2014 01:24, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
Seems to be a hard-coded constant:
va_drive_distance_bat_max = MiFromKm(35); // initial Battery distance in km
I think we could be a bit 'smarter' with this - particularly given the 'ideal' and 'estimated' range indicators we have.
Any ideas?
Regards, Mark.
On 22 Jan, 2014, at 12:17 am, Steve Gadd <ste_gadd@hotmail.com> wrote:
That's odd because i've just noticed that in the past few days - the range now being displayed on my Volt, which used to be as you described, is now quite acurate?
Steve.
------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 08:58:56 +0000 From: paul@churchley.org To: ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk Subject: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range
Just a bit of feedback regarding the range displayed on the phone app for the Ampera.
A full charge currently displays a range of about 22 miles. This is probably a bit over half the real range and well below the estimated range on the car dash.
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev _______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
Paul, Wow. 50 miles ideal vs 35km in the code is quite a difference. I wonder why the code is so conservative? The current logic is, indeed, to use SOC% to calculate the ideal and estimated ranges. Setting defaults for ideal to X and estimated to Y, per 100% SOC, seems sensible. It is possible to use 'features' to store these - those are 8bit integers and there are a few available for such uses. Regards, Mark. On 22 Jan, 2014, at 9:36 am, Paul Churchley <paul@churchley.org> wrote:
In my experience the range from 100% in ideal conditions rarely exceeds 50 miles. It does occasionally and many have done well over that but for the vast majority, for the vast majority of the time, an ideal conditions range is 50 miles.
We have the SOC% so can we not simply use that to adjust the ideal range?
My normal range varies from about 45 miles to about 30 miles depending on temp, speed etc so can we just adjust the ideal range by say, 4/5 to give typical range?
I realise that these are not scientific ways to estimate range but perhaps that is about as good as we can expect for now? We can adjust these multipliers once we have had a chance to test it out.
Could we use parameters to set a personal 100% ideal range and 100% typical range? The module could then provide a personal range based on our personal parameters and as we get better (or worse!) as EV driving so we could then adjust our personal preferences and tune our own personal range.
On 22 January 2014 01:24, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
Seems to be a hard-coded constant:
va_drive_distance_bat_max = MiFromKm(35); // initial Battery distance in km
I think we could be a bit 'smarter' with this - particularly given the 'ideal' and 'estimated' range indicators we have.
Any ideas?
Regards, Mark.
On 22 Jan, 2014, at 12:17 am, Steve Gadd <ste_gadd@hotmail.com> wrote:
That's odd because i've just noticed that in the past few days - the range now being displayed on my Volt, which used to be as you described, is now quite acurate?
Steve.
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 08:58:56 +0000 From: paul@churchley.org To: ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk Subject: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range
Just a bit of feedback regarding the range displayed on the phone app for the Ampera.
A full charge currently displays a range of about 22 miles. This is probably a bit over half the real range and well below the estimated range on the car dash.
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev _______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
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Yes Mark, I agree. I am very surprised at such a low figure myself. I could imagine 35 miles, rather than kms, as a typical range which I often get in winter but in summer I always get 40-45 miles and have had 50 miles on a few occasions. I like the idea of using features and they are easy to set and change. Regards, Paul On 22 January 2014 01:43, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
Paul,
Wow. 50 miles ideal vs 35km in the code is quite a difference. I wonder why the code is so conservative?
The current logic is, indeed, to use SOC% to calculate the ideal and estimated ranges.
Setting defaults for ideal to X and estimated to Y, per 100% SOC, seems sensible. It is possible to use 'features' to store these - those are 8bit integers and there are a few available for such uses.
Regards, Mark.
On 22 Jan, 2014, at 9:36 am, Paul Churchley <paul@churchley.org> wrote:
In my experience the range from 100% in ideal conditions rarely exceeds 50 miles. It does occasionally and many have done well over that but for the vast majority, for the vast majority of the time, an ideal conditions range is 50 miles.
We have the SOC% so can we not simply use that to adjust the ideal range?
My normal range varies from about 45 miles to about 30 miles depending on temp, speed etc so can we just adjust the ideal range by say, 4/5 to give typical range?
I realise that these are not scientific ways to estimate range but perhaps that is about as good as we can expect for now? We can adjust these multipliers once we have had a chance to test it out.
Could we use parameters to set a personal 100% ideal range and 100% typical range? The module could then provide a personal range based on our personal parameters and as we get better (or worse!) as EV driving so we could then adjust our personal preferences and tune our own personal range.
On 22 January 2014 01:24, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
Seems to be a hard-coded constant:
va_drive_distance_bat_max = MiFromKm(35); // initial Battery distance in km
I think we could be a bit 'smarter' with this - particularly given the 'ideal' and 'estimated' range indicators we have.
Any ideas?
Regards, Mark.
On 22 Jan, 2014, at 12:17 am, Steve Gadd <ste_gadd@hotmail.com> wrote:
That's odd because i've just noticed that in the past few days - the range now being displayed on my Volt, which used to be as you described, is now quite acurate?
Steve.
------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 08:58:56 +0000 From: paul@churchley.org To: ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk Subject: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range
Just a bit of feedback regarding the range displayed on the phone app for the Ampera.
A full charge currently displays a range of about 22 miles. This is probably a bit over half the real range and well below the estimated range on the car dash.
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev _______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
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Hi, Yes, I agree. If we can not read the actual range estimation of the car from the bus, then we should use 50 miles (80 km) as ideal range. Estimated range could be something below that, using a multiplyer. What we could do to get a better estimate, is to use the temperature, as we have the value from the car. It should require a little testing, but we could find out a relation between temperature (both ext. and battery temp.) and the range. Denis. De : ovmsdev-bounces@lists.teslaclub.hk [mailto:ovmsdev-bounces@lists.teslaclub.hk] De la part de Paul Churchley Envoyé : mercredi 22 janvier 2014 02:36 À : OVMS Developers Objet : Re: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range In my experience the range from 100% in ideal conditions rarely exceeds 50 miles. It does occasionally and many have done well over that but for the vast majority, for the vast majority of the time, an ideal conditions range is 50 miles. We have the SOC% so can we not simply use that to adjust the ideal range? My normal range varies from about 45 miles to about 30 miles depending on temp, speed etc so can we just adjust the ideal range by say, 4/5 to give typical range? I realise that these are not scientific ways to estimate range but perhaps that is about as good as we can expect for now? We can adjust these multipliers once we have had a chance to test it out. Could we use parameters to set a personal 100% ideal range and 100% typical range? The module could then provide a personal range based on our personal parameters and as we get better (or worse!) as EV driving so we could then adjust our personal preferences and tune our own personal range. On 22 January 2014 01:24, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote: Seems to be a hard-coded constant: va_drive_distance_bat_max = MiFromKm(35); // initial Battery distance in km I think we could be a bit 'smarter' with this - particularly given the 'ideal' and 'estimated' range indicators we have. Any ideas? Regards, Mark. On 22 Jan, 2014, at 12:17 am, Steve Gadd <ste_gadd@hotmail.com> wrote: That's odd because i've just noticed that in the past few days - the range now being displayed on my Volt, which used to be as you described, is now quite acurate? Steve. _____ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 08:58:56 +0000 From: paul@churchley.org To: ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk Subject: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range Just a bit of feedback regarding the range displayed on the phone app for the Ampera. A full charge currently displays a range of about 22 miles. This is probably a bit over half the real range and well below the estimated range on the car dash. _______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev _______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev _______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
Yes, I think that we could adjust by temperature and tune it to be more accurate through testing. On 22 January 2014 06:28, Denis KRAUTH <denis.krauth@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Yes, I agree. If we can not read the actual range estimation of the car from the bus, then we should use 50 miles (80 km) as ideal range.
Estimated range could be something below that, using a multiplyer.
What we could do to get a better estimate, is to use the temperature, as we have the value from the car.
It should require a little testing, but we could find out a relation between temperature (both ext. and battery temp.) and the range.
Denis.
*De :* ovmsdev-bounces@lists.teslaclub.hk [mailto: ovmsdev-bounces@lists.teslaclub.hk] *De la part de* Paul Churchley *Envoyé :* mercredi 22 janvier 2014 02:36 *À :* OVMS Developers *Objet :* Re: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range
In my experience the range from 100% in ideal conditions rarely exceeds 50 miles. It does occasionally and many have done well over that but for the vast majority, for the vast majority of the time, an ideal conditions range is 50 miles.
We have the SOC% so can we not simply use that to adjust the ideal range?
My normal range varies from about 45 miles to about 30 miles depending on temp, speed etc so can we just adjust the ideal range by say, 4/5 to give typical range?
I realise that these are not scientific ways to estimate range but perhaps that is about as good as we can expect for now? We can adjust these multipliers once we have had a chance to test it out.
Could we use parameters to set a personal 100% ideal range and 100% typical range? The module could then provide a personal range based on our personal parameters and as we get better (or worse!) as EV driving so we could then adjust our personal preferences and tune our own personal range.
On 22 January 2014 01:24, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
Seems to be a hard-coded constant:
va_drive_distance_bat_max = MiFromKm(35); // initial Battery distance in km
I think we could be a bit 'smarter' with this - particularly given the 'ideal' and 'estimated' range indicators we have.
Any ideas?
Regards, Mark.
On 22 Jan, 2014, at 12:17 am, Steve Gadd <ste_gadd@hotmail.com> wrote:
That's odd because i've just noticed that in the past few days - the range now being displayed on my Volt, which used to be as you described, is now quite acurate?
Steve.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 08:58:56 +0000 From: paul@churchley.org To: ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk Subject: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range
Just a bit of feedback regarding the range displayed on the phone app for the Ampera.
A full charge currently displays a range of about 22 miles. This is probably a bit over half the real range and well below the estimated range on the car dash.
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
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"Ideal Range" as used by the Roadster doesn't mean "under ideal conditions". Under ideal conditions, the Roadster can go 347 miles. Ideal range is defined by the EPA rating of the car's range, 244 miles, multiplied by current pack energy estimate divided by nominal pack capacity. The Volt's EPA rated electric range is 35 miles, although you could scale that up to 40 miles to account for the change in EPA testing since the Roadster number was set. Tom From: Denis KRAUTH <denis.krauth@gmail.com> Reply-To: OVMS Developers <ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk> Date: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 at 10:28 PM To: OVMS Developers <ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk> Subject: Re: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range Hi, Yes, I agree. If we can not read the actual range estimation of the car from the bus, then we should use 50 miles (80 km) as ideal range. Estimated range could be something below that, using a multiplyer. What we could do to get a better estimate, is to use the temperature, as we have the value from the car. It should require a little testing, but we could find out a relation between temperature (both ext. and battery temp.) and the range. Denis. De : ovmsdev-bounces@lists.teslaclub.hk [mailto:ovmsdev-bounces@lists.teslaclub.hk] De la part de Paul Churchley Envoyé : mercredi 22 janvier 2014 02:36 À : OVMS Developers Objet : Re: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range In my experience the range from 100% in ideal conditions rarely exceeds 50 miles. It does occasionally and many have done well over that but for the vast majority, for the vast majority of the time, an ideal conditions range is 50 miles. We have the SOC% so can we not simply use that to adjust the ideal range? My normal range varies from about 45 miles to about 30 miles depending on temp, speed etc so can we just adjust the ideal range by say, 4/5 to give typical range? I realise that these are not scientific ways to estimate range but perhaps that is about as good as we can expect for now? We can adjust these multipliers once we have had a chance to test it out. Could we use parameters to set a personal 100% ideal range and 100% typical range? The module could then provide a personal range based on our personal parameters and as we get better (or worse!) as EV driving so we could then adjust our personal preferences and tune our own personal range. On 22 January 2014 01:24, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote: Seems to be a hard-coded constant:
va_drive_distance_bat_max = MiFromKm(35); // initial Battery distance in km
I think we could be a bit 'smarter' with this - particularly given the 'ideal' and 'estimated' range indicators we have. Any ideas? Regards, Mark. On 22 Jan, 2014, at 12:17 am, Steve Gadd <ste_gadd@hotmail.com> wrote: That's odd because i've just noticed that in the past few days - the range now being displayed on my Volt, which used to be as you described, is now quite acurate? Steve. Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 08:58:56 +0000 From: paul@churchley.org To: ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk Subject: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range Just a bit of feedback regarding the range displayed on the phone app for the Ampera. A full charge currently displays a range of about 22 miles. This is probably a bit over half the real range and well below the estimated range on the car dash. _______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev _______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev _______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev _______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
Hi, i use this code: case 0x8334: // SOC car_stale_temps = 60; car_SOC = (char)(((int)value * 39) / 99); car_idealrange = ((unsigned int)car_SOC * (unsigned int)va_drive_distance_bat_max) / 100; car_estrange = car_idealrange; // Very kludgy, but ok ... break; It works well. The only Problem is that it saves only the highest range an don't go down. Bye Michael Am 22.01.2014 um 17:55 schrieb Tom Saxton <tom@idleloop.com>:
"Ideal Range" as used by the Roadster doesn't mean "under ideal conditions". Under ideal conditions, the Roadster can go 347 miles.
Ideal range is defined by the EPA rating of the car's range, 244 miles, multiplied by current pack energy estimate divided by nominal pack capacity. The Volt's EPA rated electric range is 35 miles, although you could scale that up to 40 miles to account for the change in EPA testing since the Roadster number was set.
Tom
From: Denis KRAUTH <denis.krauth@gmail.com> Reply-To: OVMS Developers <ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk> Date: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 at 10:28 PM To: OVMS Developers <ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk> Subject: Re: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range
Hi,
Yes, I agree. If we can not read the actual range estimation of the car from the bus, then we should use 50 miles (80 km) as ideal range. Estimated range could be something below that, using a multiplyer.
What we could do to get a better estimate, is to use the temperature, as we have the value from the car. It should require a little testing, but we could find out a relation between temperature (both ext. and battery temp.) and the range.
Denis.
De : ovmsdev-bounces@lists.teslaclub.hk [mailto:ovmsdev-bounces@lists.teslaclub.hk] De la part de Paul Churchley Envoyé : mercredi 22 janvier 2014 02:36 À : OVMS Developers Objet : Re: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range
In my experience the range from 100% in ideal conditions rarely exceeds 50 miles. It does occasionally and many have done well over that but for the vast majority, for the vast majority of the time, an ideal conditions range is 50 miles.
We have the SOC% so can we not simply use that to adjust the ideal range?
My normal range varies from about 45 miles to about 30 miles depending on temp, speed etc so can we just adjust the ideal range by say, 4/5 to give typical range?
I realise that these are not scientific ways to estimate range but perhaps that is about as good as we can expect for now? We can adjust these multipliers once we have had a chance to test it out.
Could we use parameters to set a personal 100% ideal range and 100% typical range? The module could then provide a personal range based on our personal parameters and as we get better (or worse!) as EV driving so we could then adjust our personal preferences and tune our own personal range.
On 22 January 2014 01:24, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
Seems to be a hard-coded constant:
va_drive_distance_bat_max = MiFromKm(35); // initial Battery distance in km
I think we could be a bit 'smarter' with this - particularly given the 'ideal' and 'estimated' range indicators we have.
Any ideas?
Regards, Mark.
On 22 Jan, 2014, at 12:17 am, Steve Gadd <ste_gadd@hotmail.com> wrote:
That's odd because i've just noticed that in the past few days - the range now being displayed on my Volt, which used to be as you described, is now quite acurate?
Steve.
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 08:58:56 +0000 From: paul@churchley.org To: ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk Subject: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range
Just a bit of feedback regarding the range displayed on the phone app for the Ampera.
A full charge currently displays a range of about 22 miles. This is probably a bit over half the real range and well below the estimated range on the car dash.
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev _______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev__________________________... OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
Hi, ups. missed the second/urgent part: case 0x2487: //Distance Traveled on Battery Energy This Drive Cycle edrive_distance = KM2MI((can_databuffer[5] + ((unsigned int)can_databuffer[4] << 8)) / 100); // German Volt Report im KM if ((edrive_distance > va_drive_distance_bat_max) && (car_chargestate == 4)) va_drive_distance_bat_max = edrive_distance; break; :) Both in vehicle_voltampera.c Bye Michael Am 22.01.2014 um 21:49 schrieb Michael Jochum <mikeljo@me.com>:
Hi,
i use this code:
case 0x8334: // SOC car_stale_temps = 60; car_SOC = (char)(((int)value * 39) / 99); car_idealrange = ((unsigned int)car_SOC * (unsigned int)va_drive_distance_bat_max) / 100; car_estrange = car_idealrange; // Very kludgy, but ok ... break;
It works well. The only Problem is that it saves only the highest range an don't go down.
Bye Michael
Am 22.01.2014 um 17:55 schrieb Tom Saxton <tom@idleloop.com>:
"Ideal Range" as used by the Roadster doesn't mean "under ideal conditions". Under ideal conditions, the Roadster can go 347 miles.
Ideal range is defined by the EPA rating of the car's range, 244 miles, multiplied by current pack energy estimate divided by nominal pack capacity. The Volt's EPA rated electric range is 35 miles, although you could scale that up to 40 miles to account for the change in EPA testing since the Roadster number was set.
Tom
From: Denis KRAUTH <denis.krauth@gmail.com> Reply-To: OVMS Developers <ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk> Date: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 at 10:28 PM To: OVMS Developers <ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk> Subject: Re: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range
Hi,
Yes, I agree. If we can not read the actual range estimation of the car from the bus, then we should use 50 miles (80 km) as ideal range. Estimated range could be something below that, using a multiplyer.
What we could do to get a better estimate, is to use the temperature, as we have the value from the car. It should require a little testing, but we could find out a relation between temperature (both ext. and battery temp.) and the range.
Denis.
De : ovmsdev-bounces@lists.teslaclub.hk [mailto:ovmsdev-bounces@lists.teslaclub.hk] De la part de Paul Churchley Envoyé : mercredi 22 janvier 2014 02:36 À : OVMS Developers Objet : Re: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range
In my experience the range from 100% in ideal conditions rarely exceeds 50 miles. It does occasionally and many have done well over that but for the vast majority, for the vast majority of the time, an ideal conditions range is 50 miles.
We have the SOC% so can we not simply use that to adjust the ideal range?
My normal range varies from about 45 miles to about 30 miles depending on temp, speed etc so can we just adjust the ideal range by say, 4/5 to give typical range?
I realise that these are not scientific ways to estimate range but perhaps that is about as good as we can expect for now? We can adjust these multipliers once we have had a chance to test it out.
Could we use parameters to set a personal 100% ideal range and 100% typical range? The module could then provide a personal range based on our personal parameters and as we get better (or worse!) as EV driving so we could then adjust our personal preferences and tune our own personal range.
On 22 January 2014 01:24, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
Seems to be a hard-coded constant:
va_drive_distance_bat_max = MiFromKm(35); // initial Battery distance in km
I think we could be a bit 'smarter' with this - particularly given the 'ideal' and 'estimated' range indicators we have.
Any ideas?
Regards, Mark.
On 22 Jan, 2014, at 12:17 am, Steve Gadd <ste_gadd@hotmail.com> wrote:
That's odd because i've just noticed that in the past few days - the range now being displayed on my Volt, which used to be as you described, is now quite acurate?
Steve.
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 08:58:56 +0000 From: paul@churchley.org To: ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk Subject: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range
Just a bit of feedback regarding the range displayed on the phone app for the Ampera.
A full charge currently displays a range of about 22 miles. This is probably a bit over half the real range and well below the estimated range on the car dash.
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OK, I can understand the confusion. Perhaps that is why Tesla changed it to 'rated range' in Model S? Regards, Mark. On 23 Jan, 2014, at 12:55 am, Tom Saxton <tom@idleloop.com> wrote:
"Ideal Range" as used by the Roadster doesn't mean "under ideal conditions". Under ideal conditions, the Roadster can go 347 miles.
Ideal range is defined by the EPA rating of the car's range, 244 miles, multiplied by current pack energy estimate divided by nominal pack capacity. The Volt's EPA rated electric range is 35 miles, although you could scale that up to 40 miles to account for the change in EPA testing since the Roadster number was set.
Tom
From: Denis KRAUTH <denis.krauth@gmail.com> Reply-To: OVMS Developers <ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk> Date: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 at 10:28 PM To: OVMS Developers <ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk> Subject: Re: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range
Hi,
Yes, I agree. If we can not read the actual range estimation of the car from the bus, then we should use 50 miles (80 km) as ideal range. Estimated range could be something below that, using a multiplyer.
What we could do to get a better estimate, is to use the temperature, as we have the value from the car. It should require a little testing, but we could find out a relation between temperature (both ext. and battery temp.) and the range.
Denis.
De : ovmsdev-bounces@lists.teslaclub.hk [mailto:ovmsdev-bounces@lists.teslaclub.hk] De la part de Paul Churchley Envoyé : mercredi 22 janvier 2014 02:36 À : OVMS Developers Objet : Re: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range
In my experience the range from 100% in ideal conditions rarely exceeds 50 miles. It does occasionally and many have done well over that but for the vast majority, for the vast majority of the time, an ideal conditions range is 50 miles.
We have the SOC% so can we not simply use that to adjust the ideal range?
My normal range varies from about 45 miles to about 30 miles depending on temp, speed etc so can we just adjust the ideal range by say, 4/5 to give typical range?
I realise that these are not scientific ways to estimate range but perhaps that is about as good as we can expect for now? We can adjust these multipliers once we have had a chance to test it out.
Could we use parameters to set a personal 100% ideal range and 100% typical range? The module could then provide a personal range based on our personal parameters and as we get better (or worse!) as EV driving so we could then adjust our personal preferences and tune our own personal range.
On 22 January 2014 01:24, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
Seems to be a hard-coded constant:
va_drive_distance_bat_max = MiFromKm(35); // initial Battery distance in km
I think we could be a bit 'smarter' with this - particularly given the 'ideal' and 'estimated' range indicators we have.
Any ideas?
Regards, Mark.
On 22 Jan, 2014, at 12:17 am, Steve Gadd <ste_gadd@hotmail.com> wrote:
That's odd because i've just noticed that in the past few days - the range now being displayed on my Volt, which used to be as you described, is now quite acurate?
Steve.
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 08:58:56 +0000 From: paul@churchley.org To: ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk Subject: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range
Just a bit of feedback regarding the range displayed on the phone app for the Ampera.
A full charge currently displays a range of about 22 miles. This is probably a bit over half the real range and well below the estimated range on the car dash.
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Ideal miles is a terrible name because it implies something very different from what it is. Tesla was forced to come with a new name because the EPA changed how they evaluate vehicles, giving less optimistic numbers for gas mileage as well as electric efficiency and range. So Tesla called the new numbers the much more descriptive "rated range miles", while still using the "ideal range miles" as their estimate of what the range would be under the old EPA scheme. Tom From: Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> Reply-To: OVMS Developers <ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk> Date: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 at 5:43 PM To: OVMS Developers <ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk> Subject: Re: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range OK, I can understand the confusion. Perhaps that is why Tesla changed it to 'rated range' in Model S? Regards, Mark. On 23 Jan, 2014, at 12:55 am, Tom Saxton <tom@idleloop.com> wrote:
"Ideal Range" as used by the Roadster doesn't mean "under ideal conditions". Under ideal conditions, the Roadster can go 347 miles.
Ideal range is defined by the EPA rating of the car's range, 244 miles, multiplied by current pack energy estimate divided by nominal pack capacity. The Volt's EPA rated electric range is 35 miles, although you could scale that up to 40 miles to account for the change in EPA testing since the Roadster number was set.
Tom
From: Denis KRAUTH <denis.krauth@gmail.com> Reply-To: OVMS Developers <ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk> Date: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 at 10:28 PM To: OVMS Developers <ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk> Subject: Re: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range
Hi,
Yes, I agree. If we can not read the actual range estimation of the car from the bus, then we should use 50 miles (80 km) as ideal range. Estimated range could be something below that, using a multiplyer.
What we could do to get a better estimate, is to use the temperature, as we have the value from the car. It should require a little testing, but we could find out a relation between temperature (both ext. and battery temp.) and the range.
Denis.
De : ovmsdev-bounces@lists.teslaclub.hk [mailto:ovmsdev-bounces@lists.teslaclub.hk] De la part de Paul Churchley Envoyé : mercredi 22 janvier 2014 02:36 À : OVMS Developers Objet : Re: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range
In my experience the range from 100% in ideal conditions rarely exceeds 50 miles. It does occasionally and many have done well over that but for the vast majority, for the vast majority of the time, an ideal conditions range is 50 miles.
We have the SOC% so can we not simply use that to adjust the ideal range?
My normal range varies from about 45 miles to about 30 miles depending on temp, speed etc so can we just adjust the ideal range by say, 4/5 to give typical range?
I realise that these are not scientific ways to estimate range but perhaps that is about as good as we can expect for now? We can adjust these multipliers once we have had a chance to test it out.
Could we use parameters to set a personal 100% ideal range and 100% typical range? The module could then provide a personal range based on our personal parameters and as we get better (or worse!) as EV driving so we could then adjust our personal preferences and tune our own personal range.
On 22 January 2014 01:24, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
Seems to be a hard-coded constant:
va_drive_distance_bat_max = MiFromKm(35); // initial Battery distance in km
I think we could be a bit 'smarter' with this - particularly given the 'ideal' and 'estimated' range indicators we have.
Any ideas?
Regards, Mark.
On 22 Jan, 2014, at 12:17 am, Steve Gadd <ste_gadd@hotmail.com> wrote:
That's odd because i've just noticed that in the past few days - the range now being displayed on my Volt, which used to be as you described, is now quite acurate?
Steve.
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 08:58:56 +0000 From: paul@churchley.org To: ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk Subject: [Ovmsdev] Ampera Range
Just a bit of feedback regarding the range displayed on the phone app for the Ampera.
A full charge currently displays a range of about 22 miles. This is probably a bit over half the real range and well below the estimated range on the car dash.
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Thanks for that Tom, I am wondering how best to apply that to the Ampera... indeed, to other cars? I have made the assumption that the ideal range was the range likely achievable under ideal conditions. i.e. the max range you would expect to get. Should we be changing the names, and indeed the purpose altogether, for these two values? Also, EPA does not really apply in other parts of the world where they might have their own range rating system. I would prefer to see a more generic range estimation protocol that can be applied across all models and that is user adjustable perhaps through parameters? Any thoughts? On 29 January 2014 06:11, Tom Saxton <tom@idleloop.com> wrote:
Ideal miles is a terrible name because it implies something very different from what it is.
Tesla was forced to come with a new name because the EPA changed how they evaluate vehicles, giving less optimistic numbers for gas mileage as well as electric efficiency and range. So Tesla called the new numbers the much more descriptive "rated range miles", while still using the "ideal range miles" as their estimate of what the range would be under the old EPA scheme.
Tom
For what it's worth, I like setting it as an option. As in " I know that I can usually get 30 miles per charge". Since it will be different for everyone that seems like a sensible option. Sent from my iPhone
On 29 Jan 2014, at 07:17, Paul Churchley <paul@churchley.org> wrote:
Thanks for that Tom,
I am wondering how best to apply that to the Ampera... indeed, to other cars?
I have made the assumption that the ideal range was the range likely achievable under ideal conditions. i.e. the max range you would expect to get.
Should we be changing the names, and indeed the purpose altogether, for these two values? Also, EPA does not really apply in other parts of the world where they might have their own range rating system.
I would prefer to see a more generic range estimation protocol that can be applied across all models and that is user adjustable perhaps through parameters?
Any thoughts?
On 29 January 2014 06:11, Tom Saxton <tom@idleloop.com> wrote: Ideal miles is a terrible name because it implies something very different from what it is.
Tesla was forced to come with a new name because the EPA changed how they evaluate vehicles, giving less optimistic numbers for gas mileage as well as electric efficiency and range. So Tesla called the new numbers the much more descriptive "rated range miles", while still using the "ideal range miles" as their estimate of what the range would be under the old EPA scheme.
Tom
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Are you guys talking about "projected range" based on energyusage the 30 last miles (in tesla last miles on which this is calculated can be adjusted (in energy app in model s)) 2014-01-29 Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield <nikki@littlecollie.com>
For what it's worth, I like setting it as an option. As in " I know that I can usually get 30 miles per charge". Since it will be different for everyone that seems like a sensible option.
Sent from my iPhone
On 29 Jan 2014, at 07:17, Paul Churchley <paul@churchley.org> wrote:
Thanks for that Tom,
I am wondering how best to apply that to the Ampera... indeed, to other cars?
I have made the assumption that the ideal range was the range likely achievable under ideal conditions. i.e. the max range you would expect to get.
Should we be changing the names, and indeed the purpose altogether, for these two values? Also, EPA does not really apply in other parts of the world where they might have their own range rating system.
I would prefer to see a more generic range estimation protocol that can be applied across all models and that is user adjustable perhaps through parameters?
Any thoughts?
On 29 January 2014 06:11, Tom Saxton <tom@idleloop.com> wrote:
Ideal miles is a terrible name because it implies something very different from what it is.
Tesla was forced to come with a new name because the EPA changed how they evaluate vehicles, giving less optimistic numbers for gas mileage as well as electric efficiency and range. So Tesla called the new numbers the much more descriptive "rated range miles", while still using the "ideal range miles" as their estimate of what the range would be under the old EPA scheme.
Tom
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The appeal of the ideal miles number is that it's a measurement of the energy in the pack stated in terms of range under standardized circumstances. For the Roadster, an ideal mile is 55 kWh divided by 244 EPA miles = 225.4 Wh. (The 55 kWh value comes from data buried in a spreadsheet that was posted on a Tesla Motors blog, <http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/roadster-efficiency-and-range>) It's a convenient unit of energy because it's stated in terms of range: if I drive about 57 mph on level road in moderate weather, I'll get one actual mile of range per ideal mile of energy. Because it's an energy unit, the value after a full charge lets me see in an intuitive way how my pack's energy capacity changes with time, miles, and seasons. Because it's an absolute energy unit, it can be compared across cars and drivers. For the 85 kWh Model S, with a range of 300 ideal miles or 265 rated miles, an ideal mile is 283.3 Wh and a rated mile is 320.7 Wh. For a 2014 Leaf with an EPA rated range of 84 miles and a nominal usable battery pack capacity of 22 kWh (281 - 6 = 275 Gids with a Gid equal to 80 Wh), a rated mile would be 261.9 Wh. Once you have this number, it becomes very easy to estimate range. If I'm driving on level freeway between 55 and 60 mph, I can get that range. If I drive faster, I get less. At lower speeds I get more. Climbing a hill costs 7 ideal miles per 1000 feet and descending yields about 3.5 ideal miles per 1000 feet. In cold weather, around freezing, the range per ideal miles goes down by 10%, plus another 10% if I use heat. In practical terms, without needing to do any complicated math, if I have twice as many ideal miles as my distance to home (or other charging), it doesn't matter how I drive. If distance and ideal miles are close to each other, I need to moderate speed accordingly. If I have fewer ideal miles than miles remaining, I need to find a closer place to charge, or find a shorter/slower route to my destination. This ability to understand how much energy I have left and how conditions affect my range is impossible with a guess-o-meter that is constantly changing my estimated miles remaining based on how I've driven in the recent past. With a number that ignores capacity variation, trying to build intuition is hampered by not knowing whether my range is higher/lower because of my driving or because of the battery pack's capacity (which changes with season and cell balancing, etc.) With this intuition I can not only estimate my remaining range based on how I will be driving, far more important I know how to adjust my driving to get the range I need. It would be a great service to EV drivers if OVMS can provide this type of energy-based battery instrumentation. For vehicles that don't provide a charge estimate in energy units, it will be necessary to calculate an estimate based on what the car does offer. This will be especially challenging in cases where there's insufficient data to determine capacity loss. Having an estimated range based on recent driving can be useful when you're cruising at constant speed in stable conditions, but that's a completely different thing from knowing how much energy remains in your battery pack in absolute energy units. Tom From: Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield <nikki@littlecollie.com> Reply-To: OVMS Developers <ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk> Date: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 at 1:01 AM To: OVMS Developers <ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk> Cc: OVMS Developers <ovmsdev@lists.teslaclub.hk> Subject: Re: [Ovmsdev] Tesla Ideal vs Rated Range For what it's worth, I like setting it as an option. As in " I know that I can usually get 30 miles per charge". Since it will be different for everyone that seems like a sensible option. Sent from my iPhone On 29 Jan 2014, at 07:17, Paul Churchley <paul@churchley.org> wrote:
Thanks for that Tom,
I am wondering how best to apply that to the Ampera... indeed, to other cars?
I have made the assumption that the ideal range was the range likely achievable under ideal conditions. i.e. the max range you would expect to get.
Should we be changing the names, and indeed the purpose altogether, for these two values? Also, EPA does not really apply in other parts of the world where they might have their own range rating system.
I would prefer to see a more generic range estimation protocol that can be applied across all models and that is user adjustable perhaps through parameters?
Any thoughts?
On 29 January 2014 06:11, Tom Saxton <tom@idleloop.com> wrote:
Ideal miles is a terrible name because it implies something very different from what it is.
Tesla was forced to come with a new name because the EPA changed how they evaluate vehicles, giving less optimistic numbers for gas mileage as well as electric efficiency and range. So Tesla called the new numbers the much more descriptive "rated range miles", while still using the "ideal range miles" as their estimate of what the range would be under the old EPA scheme.
Tom
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participants (8)
-
Denis KRAUTH -
J-C Saint-Pô -
Mark Webb-Johnson -
Michael Jochum -
Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield -
Paul Churchley -
Steve Gadd -
Tom Saxton