At the current rate, the batch we have of OVMS v2 modules will run out sometime in the next two months. Given the imminent shutdown of AT&T’s 2G network in USA, global re-allocation of 2G frequency bands, and the difficulties we are having obtaining the discontinued SIM908, it is decision time. Option #1: Re-order a large batch now, enough to last us into the new year, but with the risk that I’ll be personally stuck with them. Option #2: Just let the v2 modules run out, and move on with the plans for v3. Development on v2 is stagnating. Partly because the platform already does what we need it to do, and partly because we’re hitting the limits (no external connectivity other than GPRS, single CAN bus, no storage, limited RAM, flash, etc). The v3 plans have been on hold for some time, pending MBED OS release (first beta due this month) and the imminent release of hybrid processors such as that used in the UDOO Neo (due in September). We know what we want, but it is just too hard to pick a long-term platform when everything is on the cusp of changing. I really want a v3 module. Something with lots of RAM and Flash, wifi, bluetooth and cellular connectivity, multiple CAN bus support, and a rich development platform. Something we can all use as a platform for reverse engineering as well as end-user connectivity. I’ll do everything I can to make this a reality. Just not today. Too much is changing and we need to wait for things to stabilise. So, my gut feeling is to choose option #2. 2G GPRS is slowing dying, and building more on that platform just seems to be the wrong decision. This may leave us with several months of no platform stock, but I would rather people waited than spend $100 on something that is going to be obsolete/outdated. Kind of like buying an iPhone in August ;-) I don’t want to be stuck with the stock, and I don’t want people to buy a v2, only to have v3 come out a week later. Even if we started now, which we can’t, an optimistic schedule for the first end-user v3 units would be early 2016. So, tough decisions, but I really think option #2 is best. Bottom line is if you need v2 modules, order them now. If you are likely to need a large quantity for any upcoming projects, let me know. The SIM908 modules will be unavailable within the next month or so, and changing to another module is a PITA I don’t want to deal with (especially given the tight RAM and FLASH we have now). Regards, Mark.
I don't know how much value my say is any of this, but I would suggest that #1 would certainly be a mistake. While I appreciate that OVMS can provide a nice platform for reverse-engineering (or at least understanding the vehicle better) and while it certainly fills a void for EV owners/users of certain older vehicles which have no other option for remote monitoring and control (Roaster and Twizy, in-particular, iM-iEV possibly also), I just wonder what role OVMS v3 aims to fill for the broader EV community. I mean... Tesla Model S owners have the "Model S app", Nissan LEAF owners have Carwings, Chevy Volt owners have OnStar Mobile, Ford owners have MyFord App, ... and the list goes on and on. Basically, if a vehicle has a cellular antenna and service then the manufacturer has an app for remote monitoring. A few EVs don't have that connectivity, and adding OVMS to those vehicles provides real value, but that's a diminishing market. Other than getting "under the hood" what benefit does OVMS v3 aim to give EV owners over the OEM system? Or, is OVMS v3 essentially a reverse-engineering tool that provides a feature which is lacking for some limited EV models? Thanks, Lee. On 08/10/2015 07:17 PM, Mark Webb-Johnson wrote:
At the current rate, the batch we have of OVMS v2 modules will run out sometime in the next two months.
Given the imminent shutdown of AT&T’s 2G network in USA, global re-allocation of 2G frequency bands, and the difficulties we are having obtaining the discontinued SIM908, it is decision time.
Option #1: Re-order a large batch now, enough to last us into the new year, but with the risk that I’ll be personally stuck with them. Option #2: Just let the v2 modules run out, and move on with the plans for v3.
Development on v2 is stagnating. Partly because the platform already does what we need it to do, and partly because we’re hitting the limits (no external connectivity other than GPRS, single CAN bus, no storage, limited RAM, flash, etc).
The v3 plans have been on hold for some time, pending MBED OS release (first beta due this month) and the imminent release of hybrid processors such as that used in the UDOO Neo (due in September). We know what we want, but it is just too hard to pick a long-term platform when everything is on the cusp of changing.
I really want a v3 module. Something with lots of RAM and Flash, wifi, bluetooth and cellular connectivity, multiple CAN bus support, and a rich development platform. Something we can all use as a platform for reverse engineering as well as end-user connectivity. I’ll do everything I can to make this a reality. Just not today. Too much is changing and we need to wait for things to stabilise.
So, my gut feeling is to choose option #2. 2G GPRS is slowing dying, and building more on that platform just seems to be the wrong decision. This may leave us with several months of no platform stock, but I would rather people waited than spend $100 on something that is going to be obsolete/outdated. Kind of like buying an iPhone in August ;-) I don’t want to be stuck with the stock, and I don’t want people to buy a v2, only to have v3 come out a week later.
Even if we started now, which we can’t, an optimistic schedule for the first end-user v3 units would be early 2016.
So, tough decisions, but I really think option #2 is best. Bottom line is if you need v2 modules, order them now.
If you are likely to need a large quantity for any upcoming projects, let me know. The SIM908 modules will be unavailable within the next month or so, and changing to another module is a PITA I don’t want to deal with (especially given the tight RAM and FLASH we have now).
Regards, Mark.
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
-- *Lee Howard* *Mainpine, Inc. Chief Technology Officer* Tel: +1 866 363 6680 | Fax: +1 360 462 8160 lee.howard@mainpine.com | www.mainpine.com
Other than getting "under the hood" what benefit does OVMS v3 aim to give EV owners over the OEM system? Or, is OVMS v3 essentially a reverse-engineering tool that provides a feature which is lacking for some limited EV models?
The goals of the project have always been to provide a platform for people to have fun with their cars. To get access to information that the manufacturers don’t give them. To add features and change things to the way the user wants. Certainly, as new cars come along with built in connectivity, this requirement will come into more conflict with what the manufacturers are providing, but I think we are still several years away from that. For example:
Nissan LEAF owners have Carwings,
Not where I live. The ones here don’t even have GPS navigation. And, there are a lot of Leaf owners plugging into OBDII ports to get access to the technical information that Nissan won’t provide.
Chevy Volt owners have OnStar Mobile,
Not in Europe or Asia (or anywhere outside North America).
I don't know how much value my say is any of this, but I would suggest that #1 would certainly be a mistake.
All feedback has value, and is most appreciated. The v2 platform is certainly dying. I am stunned by how successful we have been and by how many modules are out there (around 1,000+). I certainly never expected that when seeing the first batch of 20 under the christmas tree back in 2011, and wondering whether we would make a second batch. But the platform itself has been stretched to the limits. Switching to 3G, or adding on bluetooth/wifi, is just not technically possible on that platform. The PIC18F2685 we are using is the biggest of that PIC18 series that does what we need. Changing that processor to a 16, 24 or 32, would be a major re-write, and wouldn’t address the core issues of developer learning curve. So, I guess what you are saying is that the option is really whether we want to say that OVMS did what it did, and has no purpose any more (we’ll just let the manufacturers decide what to give us, and be happy with that). Or, proceed with a more capable OVMS v3. The other thing to consider is that if we don’t produce a 3G capable device, then the existing 2G users out there will slowly go offline. Regards, Mark.
On 11 Aug, 2015, at 11:56 am, Lee Howard <lee.howard@mainpine.com> wrote:
I don't know how much value my say is any of this, but I would suggest that #1 would certainly be a mistake.
While I appreciate that OVMS can provide a nice platform for reverse-engineering (or at least understanding the vehicle better) and while it certainly fills a void for EV owners/users of certain older vehicles which have no other option for remote monitoring and control (Roaster and Twizy, in-particular, iM-iEV possibly also), I just wonder what role OVMS v3 aims to fill for the broader EV community. I mean...
Tesla Model S owners have the "Model S app",
Nissan LEAF owners have Carwings,
Chevy Volt owners have OnStar Mobile,
Ford owners have MyFord App,
... and the list goes on and on. Basically, if a vehicle has a cellular antenna and service then the manufacturer has an app for remote monitoring. A few EVs don't have that connectivity, and adding OVMS to those vehicles provides real value, but that's a diminishing market.
Other than getting "under the hood" what benefit does OVMS v3 aim to give EV owners over the OEM system? Or, is OVMS v3 essentially a reverse-engineering tool that provides a feature which is lacking for some limited EV models?
Thanks,
Lee.
On 08/10/2015 07:17 PM, Mark Webb-Johnson wrote:
At the current rate, the batch we have of OVMS v2 modules will run out sometime in the next two months.
Given the imminent shutdown of AT&T’s 2G network in USA, global re-allocation of 2G frequency bands, and the difficulties we are having obtaining the discontinued SIM908, it is decision time.
Option #1: Re-order a large batch now, enough to last us into the new year, but with the risk that I’ll be personally stuck with them. Option #2: Just let the v2 modules run out, and move on with the plans for v3.
Development on v2 is stagnating. Partly because the platform already does what we need it to do, and partly because we’re hitting the limits (no external connectivity other than GPRS, single CAN bus, no storage, limited RAM, flash, etc).
The v3 plans have been on hold for some time, pending MBED OS release (first beta due this month) and the imminent release of hybrid processors such as that used in the UDOO Neo (due in September). We know what we want, but it is just too hard to pick a long-term platform when everything is on the cusp of changing.
I really want a v3 module. Something with lots of RAM and Flash, wifi, bluetooth and cellular connectivity, multiple CAN bus support, and a rich development platform. Something we can all use as a platform for reverse engineering as well as end-user connectivity. I’ll do everything I can to make this a reality. Just not today. Too much is changing and we need to wait for things to stabilise.
So, my gut feeling is to choose option #2. 2G GPRS is slowing dying, and building more on that platform just seems to be the wrong decision. This may leave us with several months of no platform stock, but I would rather people waited than spend $100 on something that is going to be obsolete/outdated. Kind of like buying an iPhone in August ;-) I don’t want to be stuck with the stock, and I don’t want people to buy a v2, only to have v3 come out a week later.
Even if we started now, which we can’t, an optimistic schedule for the first end-user v3 units would be early 2016.
So, tough decisions, but I really think option #2 is best. Bottom line is if you need v2 modules, order them now.
If you are likely to need a large quantity for any upcoming projects, let me know. The SIM908 modules will be unavailable within the next month or so, and changing to another module is a PITA I don’t want to deal with (especially given the tight RAM and FLASH we have now).
Regards, Mark.
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
-- *Lee Howard* *Mainpine, Inc. Chief Technology Officer* Tel: +1 866 363 6680 | Fax: +1 360 462 8160 lee.howard@mainpine.com | www.mainpine.com _______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
On 08/10/2015 09:54 PM, Mark Webb-Johnson wrote:
So, I guess what you are saying is that the option is really whether we want to say that OVMS did what it did, and has no purpose any more (we’ll just let the manufacturers decide what to give us, and be happy with that). Or, proceed with a more capable OVMS v3.
Correct, that's what I was saying. I didn't remember that many of the OEM cellular services for EVs don't exist outside of certain markets (primarily North America). Let me give a bit broader narrative... I have two 2012 Volts here, and I wanted to "get under the hood" with OVMS and the Volts to try to give the Volt/Ampera better support in OVMS. But, I discovered that the OVMS platform really was going to take more time than I was going to be able to devote to that as a hobby. I developed-in GPS-driven route (not just location, but GPS points for 24 hours to show route and provided car metrics along the path)... Then I looked at MyGreenVolt App, and realized that there was no incentive in it for me with the Volt because it's all there and done better than I can do. I haven't switched to MyGreenVolt because for now I get what Iittle I need out of OVMS, but when 2G goes down around here I already have my next step. For what it's worth, I did try to come up with a commercial application to justify me spending more than "hobbiest" time on OVMS, but with so many alternatives available (apparently most of which are only available in my market) I couldn't come up with one. Thanks, Lee. -- *Lee Howard* *Mainpine, Inc. Chief Technology Officer* Tel: +1 866 363 6680 | Fax: +1 360 462 8160 lee.howard@mainpine.com | www.mainpine.com
Mark, my 2 cents: let's go V3, the sooner the better. I'm stuck with the Twizy development, because there is just no space left in ROM. I know of OVMS requests for the Smart ED, for the Kia Soul and for the Zoe. All of these come with rather poor and/or expensive remote monitoring systems. A really important issue though is the EU approval, that's the single most blocking issue of V2 distribution and really needs to be adressed in V3. I know of two guys who thought about using the OVMS platform for a free + commercial Smart ED App alternative, but now go for another platform. Btw: could you create a report from the server logs how many modules are currently running which vehicle type? Regards, Michael -- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
Michael, Le 11/08/2015 19:50, Michael Balzer a écrit :
my 2 cents: let's go V3, the sooner the better.
I totally agree. Let's discard the v2 ASAP.
I'm stuck with the Twizy development, because there is just no space left in ROM.
Yeah, as a Twizy user, I feel like we'd really benefit from a more flexible platform.
A really important issue though is the EU approval, that's the single most blocking issue of V2 distribution and really needs to be adressed in V3.
Uh ? What kind of aproval are you looking for ? It's a homebrew / self-implemented device, and per EU laws, you shall dispose of your goods as you'd like unless interfering with safety regulations (or, obviously, broader laws).
I know of two guys who thought about using the OVMS platform for a free + commercial Smart ED App alternative, but now go for another platform.
Then they might have to contribute (financially) to a certifiable device, which AFAIK is not a goal for the OVMS project. Distribution of an embedded developpment platform isn't regulated. They could use it for prototyping, but would still have to go through regulatory burden on their (eventually customized) design.
Btw: could you create a report from the server logs how many modules are currently running which vehicle type?
Not sure it's a good idea to publish data coming from this server. Please consider debating a policy regarding user data on OVMS servers, it could save us a lot of trouble. I personally am against any use or publication of any user identifiable data, and even statistics could be used against us by regulator's jerks, as they could imply real use instead of pure amusement. Best regards, -- Jérôme Nicolle
Jérôme, Am 11.08.2015 um 21:06 schrieb Jérôme Nicolle:
What kind of aproval are you looking for ? It's a homebrew / self-implemented device, and per EU laws, you shall dispose of your goods as you'd like unless interfering with safety regulations (or, obviously, broader laws).
The module needs the "CE" approval: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquage_CE Without the "CE" sign, no module may be sold officially inside the EU countries. The german customs department has rejected the OVMS module import for private use as well in some cases, if the recipient failed to declare it as an experimental development board. So there is no potential commercial use or deployment case for the OVMS in the EU without the "CE" sign.
Not sure it's a good idea to publish data coming from this server. Please consider debating a policy regarding user data on OVMS servers, it could save us a lot of trouble. I personally am against any use or publication of any user identifiable data, and even statistics could be used against us by regulator's jerks, as they could imply real use instead of pure amusement.
I'm with you regarding privacy, but a simple use count by vehicle type does not disclose any user data. Regards, Michael -- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
Michael, Le 11/08/2015 21:32, Michael Balzer a écrit :
The module needs the "CE" approval:
Oh, that approval… You're perfectly right, I forgot France has a lazy customs department that let modules through quite easily.
I'm with you regarding privacy, but a simple use count by vehicle type does not disclose any user data.
Well, as much as I'd like to point out the flaws and limits in car-manufacturers connected apps and services, mostly regarding their customers' data, I'm really reluctent about any public disclosure of our user-base count. It's not that I'm afraid it could reveal personnal informations (this would be unacceptable, therefore unlikely), rather that I'm concerned our shitty governement (yeah, still talking about the french oligarchy) hearing of it some way, and using it as a distraction instead of focusing on real issues, like they always do. So, in a way, I'd agree to a non-public disclosure within users and devs, not on a public mailing-list. I hope we could find a middleground here, because I'd be interested in the numbers, but I'd really not like to see it on a frontpage just yet. Best regards, -- Jérôme Nicolle
Nissan LEAF owners have Carwings
Sure, that's true today in some parts of the world, but... 1. Carwings is terrible. It's slow, unreliable, and doesn't give the type of data owners want and we know is available on the CAN bus. 2. It was supposed to be free for three years. Our 2011 Leaf is coming up on four years old and so far no word about Carwings transitioning to being paid. 3. Carwings depends on GPRS at least in the US <https://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/leaf/charging-range/disclaimers.htm l> . The minute Carwings either dies with GPRS or becomes a paid service, there are going to be a lot of LEAF owners looking for an alternative. There are third party solutions that provide owners with data via Bluetooth, but they require either a cheap OBD-Bluetooth and an Android device, or a more expensive (and presumably power-hungry) OBD-WiFi device and an iPhone. As far as I know, there is no cellular-enabled solution. LEAF US Sales History: 2010: 19 2011: 9,674 2012: 9,819 2013: 22,610 2014: 30,200 Tom
I agree with Mark that option 2 is best. Jack
On Aug 10, 2015, at 6:17 PM, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
At the current rate, the batch we have of OVMS v2 modules will run out sometime in the next two months.
Given the imminent shutdown of AT&T’s 2G network in USA, global re-allocation of 2G frequency bands, and the difficulties we are having obtaining the discontinued SIM908, it is decision time.
Option #1: Re-order a large batch now, enough to last us into the new year, but with the risk that I’ll be personally stuck with them. Option #2: Just let the v2 modules run out, and move on with the plans for v3.
Development on v2 is stagnating. Partly because the platform already does what we need it to do, and partly because we’re hitting the limits (no external connectivity other than GPRS, single CAN bus, no storage, limited RAM, flash, etc).
The v3 plans have been on hold for some time, pending MBED OS release (first beta due this month) and the imminent release of hybrid processors such as that used in the UDOO Neo (due in September). We know what we want, but it is just too hard to pick a long-term platform when everything is on the cusp of changing.
I really want a v3 module. Something with lots of RAM and Flash, wifi, bluetooth and cellular connectivity, multiple CAN bus support, and a rich development platform. Something we can all use as a platform for reverse engineering as well as end-user connectivity. I’ll do everything I can to make this a reality. Just not today. Too much is changing and we need to wait for things to stabilise.
So, my gut feeling is to choose option #2. 2G GPRS is slowing dying, and building more on that platform just seems to be the wrong decision. This may leave us with several months of no platform stock, but I would rather people waited than spend $100 on something that is going to be obsolete/outdated. Kind of like buying an iPhone in August ;-) I don’t want to be stuck with the stock, and I don’t want people to buy a v2, only to have v3 come out a week later.
Even if we started now, which we can’t, an optimistic schedule for the first end-user v3 units would be early 2016.
So, tough decisions, but I really think option #2 is best. Bottom line is if you need v2 modules, order them now.
If you are likely to need a large quantity for any upcoming projects, let me know. The SIM908 modules will be unavailable within the next month or so, and changing to another module is a PITA I don’t want to deal with (especially given the tight RAM and FLASH we have now).
Regards, Mark.
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
Hi, Option #1: Don’t ride a dead horse. I think Option #2 is the best. When we make it modular than we can chance single parts of it when some part gets outdated without develop the hole thing new. You are right that there is no OnStar in Europe. Bye Michael
Am 11.08.2015 um 04:17 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net>:
At the current rate, the batch we have of OVMS v2 modules will run out sometime in the next two months.
Given the imminent shutdown of AT&T’s 2G network in USA, global re-allocation of 2G frequency bands, and the difficulties we are having obtaining the discontinued SIM908, it is decision time.
Option #1: Re-order a large batch now, enough to last us into the new year, but with the risk that I’ll be personally stuck with them. Option #2: Just let the v2 modules run out, and move on with the plans for v3.
Development on v2 is stagnating. Partly because the platform already does what we need it to do, and partly because we’re hitting the limits (no external connectivity other than GPRS, single CAN bus, no storage, limited RAM, flash, etc).
The v3 plans have been on hold for some time, pending MBED OS release (first beta due this month) and the imminent release of hybrid processors such as that used in the UDOO Neo (due in September). We know what we want, but it is just too hard to pick a long-term platform when everything is on the cusp of changing.
I really want a v3 module. Something with lots of RAM and Flash, wifi, bluetooth and cellular connectivity, multiple CAN bus support, and a rich development platform. Something we can all use as a platform for reverse engineering as well as end-user connectivity. I’ll do everything I can to make this a reality. Just not today. Too much is changing and we need to wait for things to stabilise.
So, my gut feeling is to choose option #2. 2G GPRS is slowing dying, and building more on that platform just seems to be the wrong decision. This may leave us with several months of no platform stock, but I would rather people waited than spend $100 on something that is going to be obsolete/outdated. Kind of like buying an iPhone in August ;-) I don’t want to be stuck with the stock, and I don’t want people to buy a v2, only to have v3 come out a week later.
Even if we started now, which we can’t, an optimistic schedule for the first end-user v3 units would be early 2016.
So, tough decisions, but I really think option #2 is best. Bottom line is if you need v2 modules, order them now.
If you are likely to need a large quantity for any upcoming projects, let me know. The SIM908 modules will be unavailable within the next month or so, and changing to another module is a PITA I don’t want to deal with (especially given the tight RAM and FLASH we have now).
Regards, Mark.
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
Mark, a user from the german Twizy forum suggests crowd funding to accelerate V3 development. I don't know if that really accelerates anything in this case, but it could take the burden of pre-financing V3 development & first badges from your shoulders. Problem is funding from users who expect their Kia/Zoe/Smart/... to be supported, without any developer working on that... Anyway, just wanted to forward the idea. Regards, Michael -- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
Michael, Le 11/08/2015 21:08, Michael Balzer a écrit :
Anyway, just wanted to forward the idea.
Thanks for forwarding. As a twizy user, I'd like to pre-order the v3 if it could help getting it done. At least one of my fellow french twizy user will join. Best regards, -- Jérôme Nicolle
I can't elaborate a full mail now because I'm on my phone at a hacker camp (anyone else at the CCC?) but I've been working on something for a while: http://hackaday.com/2015/08/10/hackaday-prize-a-tiny-tool-for-car-hacking/ Let me know what you think about it! MG On Aug 11, 2015 9:11 PM, "Jérôme Nicolle" <jerome@ceriz.fr> wrote:
Michael,
Le 11/08/2015 21:08, Michael Balzer a écrit :
Anyway, just wanted to forward the idea.
Thanks for forwarding.
As a twizy user, I'd like to pre-order the v3 if it could help getting it done. At least one of my fellow french twizy user will join.
Best regards,
-- Jérôme Nicolle _______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 9:11 PM, Jérôme Nicolle <jerome@ceriz.fr> wrote:
At least one of my fellow french twizy user will join.
Here's the fellow french :-) I am too waiting for a great evolution of the OVMS platform. From the sources, and the number of options to kick to cut functions off, yeah, I can see Michael strugling to have things fit. And I do join early remarks about the UDOO Neo (woot! individually powered cores!) and MBED OS, having it broke down into smaller, modular boards can make the purchase curve a bit less steep, and might leverage the CE marking issue buy having pre CE'ed parts/shields put together at will and need... (drilling down to a handful of "tested and working" parts, don't want get into a windows-like driver headache neither) Yes, you might miss the original sole of the project by not having a complete board designed, but isn't the software the sole nowadays? (and the board(s) the vessel?) I don't know, just throwing in some thoughts, JaXX./.
Am 11.08.2015 um 04:17 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:
Option #1: Re-order a large batch now, enough to last us into the new year, but with the risk that I’ll be personally stuck with them.
We had the first german "#twizycon" this weekend, part of which was an OVMS workshop I held. Not only german Twizy owners attended, there were also some from Netherlands and Switzerland. I'm glad to forward a lot of cheers, appreciation and gratefulness from the Twizy community to the whole OVMS developers team! :-) I've spoken to many who have ordered their modules during the last days or will order this week. The word about V2 production end has been spread to Italy as well. If the orders exceed the stock batch, I'm sure most of them will agree to pre-pay their order for a last V2 production batch, because they don't want to wait for V3. Regards, Michael PS: some images from #twizycon 2015 :-) http://www.vectrix-forum.de/index.php?option=com_rsgallery2&gid=88&Itemid=53 http://www.schaumburger-zeitung.de/portal/lokales/bildergalerien_costart,1_g... http://www.rinteln-aktuell.de/rinteln-fuer-ein-wochenende-welthauptstadt-der... -- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
Michael, I wondered why stock levels dropped suddenly over the weekend ;-) 50 left now (plus another 10 I want to keep for spares/rma/replacement). If you keep doing things like that, I may have to re-think the plan option #2. Regards, Mark.
On 17 Aug, 2015, at 9:22 pm, Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de> wrote:
Am 11.08.2015 um 04:17 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:
Option #1: Re-order a large batch now, enough to last us into the new year, but with the risk that I’ll be personally stuck with them.
We had the first german "#twizycon" this weekend, part of which was an OVMS workshop I held. Not only german Twizy owners attended, there were also some from Netherlands and Switzerland.
I'm glad to forward a lot of cheers, appreciation and gratefulness from the Twizy community to the whole OVMS developers team! :-)
I've spoken to many who have ordered their modules during the last days or will order this week. The word about V2 production end has been spread to Italy as well.
If the orders exceed the stock batch, I'm sure most of them will agree to pre-pay their order for a last V2 production batch, because they don't want to wait for V3.
Regards, Michael
PS: some images from #twizycon 2015 :-)
http://www.vectrix-forum.de/index.php?option=com_rsgallery2&gid=88&Itemid=53
http://www.schaumburger-zeitung.de/portal/lokales/bildergalerien_costart,1_g...
http://www.rinteln-aktuell.de/rinteln-fuer-ein-wochenende-welthauptstadt-der...
-- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
<dexter.vcf>_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
Plans change. For some inexplicable reason (Michael? #twizycon?), we had a jump in order for the v2 modules. August is not even yet over, and they are going too quickly now. We are down to about 40 (of which I need to retain at least 10 for RMA/repair purposes). The Arduino+Linux hybrid sample boards look to be delayed another month, and MBED OS was due in August 2015 but has yet to make an appearance. I checked, and the supplier has just a few hundred SIM908 modules left. Accordingly, I just put in an order for definitely-the-last-batch of 100x v2 modules. With four more months to go in the year, I’ll take the risk. Hopefully we can start work on v3 next month, once we see the Arduino+Linux hybrid vs MBED OS options solidify. I suspect MBED OS won’t be finalised until 2016Q1 anyway. The guys I am working with in China suggest to first produce a small batch of development boards (not in a case, but functionally complete) so that we can start development work, and then work on packaging the board into a small footprint with case, certification, etc. I suspect that this could be a six month project to get a final v3 based packaged product, so those 140 remaining v2 modules should hopefully give us some breathing room. I am excited about bluetooth and wifi options. Pricing for these has plummeted, and available options grown dramatically. I am hopeful that we can get a small board with cellular + gps + wifi + bluetooth radios, for a reasonable cost. Add on a bunch of flash (1GB+), SD-card, RAM (at least 128KB, maybe more), at least 2 CAN ports, and we’ll have a pretty amazing vehicle hacking and telemetry platform. Regards, Mark
On 11 Aug, 2015, at 10:17 am, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
At the current rate, the batch we have of OVMS v2 modules will run out sometime in the next two months.
Given the imminent shutdown of AT&T’s 2G network in USA, global re-allocation of 2G frequency bands, and the difficulties we are having obtaining the discontinued SIM908, it is decision time.
Option #1: Re-order a large batch now, enough to last us into the new year, but with the risk that I’ll be personally stuck with them. Option #2: Just let the v2 modules run out, and move on with the plans for v3.
Development on v2 is stagnating. Partly because the platform already does what we need it to do, and partly because we’re hitting the limits (no external connectivity other than GPRS, single CAN bus, no storage, limited RAM, flash, etc).
The v3 plans have been on hold for some time, pending MBED OS release (first beta due this month) and the imminent release of hybrid processors such as that used in the UDOO Neo (due in September). We know what we want, but it is just too hard to pick a long-term platform when everything is on the cusp of changing.
I really want a v3 module. Something with lots of RAM and Flash, wifi, bluetooth and cellular connectivity, multiple CAN bus support, and a rich development platform. Something we can all use as a platform for reverse engineering as well as end-user connectivity. I’ll do everything I can to make this a reality. Just not today. Too much is changing and we need to wait for things to stabilise.
So, my gut feeling is to choose option #2. 2G GPRS is slowing dying, and building more on that platform just seems to be the wrong decision. This may leave us with several months of no platform stock, but I would rather people waited than spend $100 on something that is going to be obsolete/outdated. Kind of like buying an iPhone in August ;-) I don’t want to be stuck with the stock, and I don’t want people to buy a v2, only to have v3 come out a week later.
Even if we started now, which we can’t, an optimistic schedule for the first end-user v3 units would be early 2016.
So, tough decisions, but I really think option #2 is best. Bottom line is if you need v2 modules, order them now.
If you are likely to need a large quantity for any upcoming projects, let me know. The SIM908 modules will be unavailable within the next month or so, and changing to another module is a PITA I don’t want to deal with (especially given the tight RAM and FLASH we have now).
Regards, Mark.
Great news, thanks! Please put me on the list for two of the V3 development boards. I've forwarded your info to the Twizy forum. There are some active beta testers, I asked to send orders for the V3 development board to me or you. I said pricing will probably be max 200 €. Regards, Michael Am 25.08.2015 um 07:41 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:
Plans change.
For some inexplicable reason (Michael? #twizycon?), we had a jump in order for the v2 modules. August is not even yet over, and they are going too quickly now. We are down to about 40 (of which I need to retain at least 10 for RMA/repair purposes).
The Arduino+Linux hybrid sample boards look to be delayed another month, and MBED OS was due in August 2015 but has yet to make an appearance.
I checked, and the supplier has just a few hundred SIM908 modules left.
Accordingly, I just put in an order for definitely-the-last-batch of 100x v2 modules. With four more months to go in the year, I’ll take the risk.
Hopefully we can start work on v3 next month, once we see the Arduino+Linux hybrid vs MBED OS options solidify. I suspect MBED OS won’t be finalised until 2016Q1 anyway. The guys I am working with in China suggest to first produce a small batch of development boards (not in a case, but functionally complete) so that we can start development work, and then work on packaging the board into a small footprint with case, certification, etc. I suspect that this could be a six month project to get a final v3 based packaged product, so those 140 remaining v2 modules should hopefully give us some breathing room.
I am excited about bluetooth and wifi options. Pricing for these has plummeted, and available options grown dramatically. I am hopeful that we can get a small board with cellular + gps + wifi + bluetooth radios, for a reasonable cost. Add on a bunch of flash (1GB+), SD-card, RAM (at least 128KB, maybe more), at least 2 CAN ports, and we’ll have a pretty amazing vehicle hacking and telemetry platform.
Regards, Mark
On 11 Aug, 2015, at 10:17 am, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
At the current rate, the batch we have of OVMS v2 modules will run out sometime in the next two months.
Given the imminent shutdown of AT&T’s 2G network in USA, global re-allocation of 2G frequency bands, and the difficulties we are having obtaining the discontinued SIM908, it is decision time.
Option #1: Re-order a large batch now, enough to last us into the new year, but with the risk that I’ll be personally stuck with them. Option #2: Just let the v2 modules run out, and move on with the plans for v3.
Development on v2 is stagnating. Partly because the platform already does what we need it to do, and partly because we’re hitting the limits (no external connectivity other than GPRS, single CAN bus, no storage, limited RAM, flash, etc).
The v3 plans have been on hold for some time, pending MBED OS release (first beta due this month) and the imminent release of hybrid processors such as that used in the UDOO Neo (due in September). We know what we want, but it is just too hard to pick a long-term platform when everything is on the cusp of changing.
I really want a v3 module. Something with lots of RAM and Flash, wifi, bluetooth and cellular connectivity, multiple CAN bus support, and a rich development platform. Something we can all use as a platform for reverse engineering as well as end-user connectivity. I’ll do everything I can to make this a reality. Just not today. Too much is changing and we need to wait for things to stabilise.
So, my gut feeling is to choose option #2. 2G GPRS is slowing dying, and building more on that platform just seems to be the wrong decision. This may leave us with several months of no platform stock, but I would rather people waited than spend $100 on something that is going to be obsolete/outdated. Kind of like buying an iPhone in August ;-) I don’t want to be stuck with the stock, and I don’t want people to buy a v2, only to have v3 come out a week later.
Even if we started now, which we can’t, an optimistic schedule for the first end-user v3 units would be early 2016.
So, tough decisions, but I really think option #2 is best. Bottom line is if you need v2 modules, order them now.
If you are likely to need a large quantity for any upcoming projects, let me know. The SIM908 modules will be unavailable within the next month or so, and changing to another module is a PITA I don’t want to deal with (especially given the tight RAM and FLASH we have now).
Regards, Mark.
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
-- Michael Balzer * Paradestr. 8 * D-42107 Wuppertal Fon 0202 / 272 2201 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
Development boards are a tricky thing. Our suppliers hate making too many of them. What I’ve told them this time is to firstly make a couple of test boards that we can use to validate all major functionality (can we program, can we reach all the auxiliary chips, do the lights flash, etc). Once we have that, then come up with a development board based on the test board design (without box, and more pinouts available) and make 10 of them hand-soldered. We’ll send those out to the guys developing vehicle modules to help with their porting processes. Based on the feedback of the development boards, we can then re-layout the production board to optimise for the chosen case, and make the first production run (probably 100 to 200 units, machine soldered). Regards, Mark.
On 25 Aug, 2015, at 4:04 pm, Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de> wrote:
Great news, thanks!
Please put me on the list for two of the V3 development boards.
I've forwarded your info to the Twizy forum. There are some active beta testers, I asked to send orders for the V3 development board to me or you.
I said pricing will probably be max 200 €.
Regards, Michael
Am 25.08.2015 um 07:41 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:
Plans change.
For some inexplicable reason (Michael? #twizycon?), we had a jump in order for the v2 modules. August is not even yet over, and they are going too quickly now. We are down to about 40 (of which I need to retain at least 10 for RMA/repair purposes).
The Arduino+Linux hybrid sample boards look to be delayed another month, and MBED OS was due in August 2015 but has yet to make an appearance.
I checked, and the supplier has just a few hundred SIM908 modules left.
Accordingly, I just put in an order for definitely-the-last-batch of 100x v2 modules. With four more months to go in the year, I’ll take the risk.
Hopefully we can start work on v3 next month, once we see the Arduino+Linux hybrid vs MBED OS options solidify. I suspect MBED OS won’t be finalised until 2016Q1 anyway. The guys I am working with in China suggest to first produce a small batch of development boards (not in a case, but functionally complete) so that we can start development work, and then work on packaging the board into a small footprint with case, certification, etc. I suspect that this could be a six month project to get a final v3 based packaged product, so those 140 remaining v2 modules should hopefully give us some breathing room.
I am excited about bluetooth and wifi options. Pricing for these has plummeted, and available options grown dramatically. I am hopeful that we can get a small board with cellular + gps + wifi + bluetooth radios, for a reasonable cost. Add on a bunch of flash (1GB+), SD-card, RAM (at least 128KB, maybe more), at least 2 CAN ports, and we’ll have a pretty amazing vehicle hacking and telemetry platform.
Regards, Mark
On 11 Aug, 2015, at 10:17 am, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
At the current rate, the batch we have of OVMS v2 modules will run out sometime in the next two months.
Given the imminent shutdown of AT&T’s 2G network in USA, global re-allocation of 2G frequency bands, and the difficulties we are having obtaining the discontinued SIM908, it is decision time.
Option #1: Re-order a large batch now, enough to last us into the new year, but with the risk that I’ll be personally stuck with them. Option #2: Just let the v2 modules run out, and move on with the plans for v3.
Development on v2 is stagnating. Partly because the platform already does what we need it to do, and partly because we’re hitting the limits (no external connectivity other than GPRS, single CAN bus, no storage, limited RAM, flash, etc).
The v3 plans have been on hold for some time, pending MBED OS release (first beta due this month) and the imminent release of hybrid processors such as that used in the UDOO Neo (due in September). We know what we want, but it is just too hard to pick a long-term platform when everything is on the cusp of changing.
I really want a v3 module. Something with lots of RAM and Flash, wifi, bluetooth and cellular connectivity, multiple CAN bus support, and a rich development platform. Something we can all use as a platform for reverse engineering as well as end-user connectivity. I’ll do everything I can to make this a reality. Just not today. Too much is changing and we need to wait for things to stabilise.
So, my gut feeling is to choose option #2. 2G GPRS is slowing dying, and building more on that platform just seems to be the wrong decision. This may leave us with several months of no platform stock, but I would rather people waited than spend $100 on something that is going to be obsolete/outdated. Kind of like buying an iPhone in August ;-) I don’t want to be stuck with the stock, and I don’t want people to buy a v2, only to have v3 come out a week later.
Even if we started now, which we can’t, an optimistic schedule for the first end-user v3 units would be early 2016.
So, tough decisions, but I really think option #2 is best. Bottom line is if you need v2 modules, order them now.
If you are likely to need a large quantity for any upcoming projects, let me know. The SIM908 modules will be unavailable within the next month or so, and changing to another module is a PITA I don’t want to deal with (especially given the tight RAM and FLASH we have now).
Regards, Mark.
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
-- Michael Balzer * Paradestr. 8 * D-42107 Wuppertal Fon 0202 / 272 2201 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
Hi, I have little personnal time but I'd still be highly interested in putting what I have on testing out a beta v3... I'm slowly working on a cluster replacement for the Twizy and having a board to preprocess comms to the CANbus (or moving what I'm doing to the "heavyweight" part of a Udoo Neo-like board) would be a great relief. Yes, I intend to make those LCD-dashboard-savvy Mercedes and Jaguar drivers jealous :-) So if there are any available slots for a test board or better/safer, an early version of a production board (to give priority to the devs, i'm in no hurry), count me in. Best, Julien JaXX Banchet Le 26/08/2015 09:37, Mark Webb-Johnson a écrit :
Development boards are a tricky thing. Our suppliers hate making too many of them.
What I’ve told them this time is to firstly make a couple of test boards that we can use to validate all major functionality (can we program, can we reach all the auxiliary chips, do the lights flash, etc). Once we have that, then come up with a development board based on the test board design (without box, and more pinouts available) and make 10 of them hand-soldered. We’ll send those out to the guys developing vehicle modules to help with their porting processes.
Based on the feedback of the development boards, we can then re-layout the production board to optimise for the chosen case, and make the first production run (probably 100 to 200 units, machine soldered).
Regards, Mark.
On 25 Aug, 2015, at 4:04 pm, Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de> wrote:
Great news, thanks!
Please put me on the list for two of the V3 development boards.
I've forwarded your info to the Twizy forum. There are some active beta testers, I asked to send orders for the V3 development board to me or you.
I said pricing will probably be max 200 €.
Regards, Michael
Am 25.08.2015 um 07:41 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:
Plans change.
For some inexplicable reason (Michael? #twizycon?), we had a jump in order for the v2 modules. August is not even yet over, and they are going too quickly now. We are down to about 40 (of which I need to retain at least 10 for RMA/repair purposes).
The Arduino+Linux hybrid sample boards look to be delayed another month, and MBED OS was due in August 2015 but has yet to make an appearance.
I checked, and the supplier has just a few hundred SIM908 modules left.
Accordingly, I just put in an order for definitely-the-last-batch of 100x v2 modules. With four more months to go in the year, I’ll take the risk.
Hopefully we can start work on v3 next month, once we see the Arduino+Linux hybrid vs MBED OS options solidify. I suspect MBED OS won’t be finalised until 2016Q1 anyway. The guys I am working with in China suggest to first produce a small batch of development boards (not in a case, but functionally complete) so that we can start development work, and then work on packaging the board into a small footprint with case, certification, etc. I suspect that this could be a six month project to get a final v3 based packaged product, so those 140 remaining v2 modules should hopefully give us some breathing room.
I am excited about bluetooth and wifi options. Pricing for these has plummeted, and available options grown dramatically. I am hopeful that we can get a small board with cellular + gps + wifi + bluetooth radios, for a reasonable cost. Add on a bunch of flash (1GB+), SD-card, RAM (at least 128KB, maybe more), at least 2 CAN ports, and we’ll have a pretty amazing vehicle hacking and telemetry platform.
Regards, Mark
On 11 Aug, 2015, at 10:17 am, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
At the current rate, the batch we have of OVMS v2 modules will run out sometime in the next two months.
Given the imminent shutdown of AT&T’s 2G network in USA, global re-allocation of 2G frequency bands, and the difficulties we are having obtaining the discontinued SIM908, it is decision time.
Option #1: Re-order a large batch now, enough to last us into the new year, but with the risk that I’ll be personally stuck with them. Option #2: Just let the v2 modules run out, and move on with the plans for v3.
Development on v2 is stagnating. Partly because the platform already does what we need it to do, and partly because we’re hitting the limits (no external connectivity other than GPRS, single CAN bus, no storage, limited RAM, flash, etc).
The v3 plans have been on hold for some time, pending MBED OS release (first beta due this month) and the imminent release of hybrid processors such as that used in the UDOO Neo (due in September). We know what we want, but it is just too hard to pick a long-term platform when everything is on the cusp of changing.
I really want a v3 module. Something with lots of RAM and Flash, wifi, bluetooth and cellular connectivity, multiple CAN bus support, and a rich development platform. Something we can all use as a platform for reverse engineering as well as end-user connectivity. I’ll do everything I can to make this a reality. Just not today. Too much is changing and we need to wait for things to stabilise.
So, my gut feeling is to choose option #2. 2G GPRS is slowing dying, and building more on that platform just seems to be the wrong decision. This may leave us with several months of no platform stock, but I would rather people waited than spend $100 on something that is going to be obsolete/outdated. Kind of like buying an iPhone in August ;-) I don’t want to be stuck with the stock, and I don’t want people to buy a v2, only to have v3 come out a week later.
Even if we started now, which we can’t, an optimistic schedule for the first end-user v3 units would be early 2016.
So, tough decisions, but I really think option #2 is best. Bottom line is if you need v2 modules, order them now.
If you are likely to need a large quantity for any upcoming projects, let me know. The SIM908 modules will be unavailable within the next month or so, and changing to another module is a PITA I don’t want to deal with (especially given the tight RAM and FLASH we have now).
Regards, Mark.
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
-- Michael Balzer * Paradestr. 8 * D-42107 Wuppertal Fon 0202 / 272 2201 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
Display is interesting, and something a few have asked about. My suggestion was to keep this off the basic unit, as it is just too expensive and means the unit must be mounted in a visible position. It dramatically changes the housing design, and is hard to please everyone with one design. I would rather provide: A standard port that can be used to drive an external display A standard protocol that can be used for external displays either via that port or via bluetooth/wifi/cellular comms link That would mean a display could be run on an iPhone/Android device via bluetooth/wifi. It would also mean that a dumb display couldn’t be used, which would drive up cost for those that wanted a display, but would give us the flexibility to add one for those that want it. It would also keep all the display code out of the core project and into a separate project. Regards, Mark.
On 26 Aug, 2015, at 3:48 pm, Julien (JaXX) Banchet <jaxx@jaxx.org> wrote:
Hi,
I have little personnal time but I'd still be highly interested in putting what I have on testing out a beta v3... I'm slowly working on a cluster replacement for the Twizy and having a board to preprocess comms to the CANbus (or moving what I'm doing to the "heavyweight" part of a Udoo Neo-like board) would be a great relief.
Yes, I intend to make those LCD-dashboard-savvy Mercedes and Jaguar drivers jealous :-)
So if there are any available slots for a test board or better/safer, an early version of a production board (to give priority to the devs, i'm in no hurry), count me in.
Best,
Julien JaXX Banchet
Le 26/08/2015 09:37, Mark Webb-Johnson a écrit :
Development boards are a tricky thing. Our suppliers hate making too many of them.
What I’ve told them this time is to firstly make a couple of test boards that we can use to validate all major functionality (can we program, can we reach all the auxiliary chips, do the lights flash, etc). Once we have that, then come up with a development board based on the test board design (without box, and more pinouts available) and make 10 of them hand-soldered. We’ll send those out to the guys developing vehicle modules to help with their porting processes.
Based on the feedback of the development boards, we can then re-layout the production board to optimise for the chosen case, and make the first production run (probably 100 to 200 units, machine soldered).
Regards, Mark.
On 25 Aug, 2015, at 4:04 pm, Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de> wrote:
Great news, thanks!
Please put me on the list for two of the V3 development boards.
I've forwarded your info to the Twizy forum. There are some active beta testers, I asked to send orders for the V3 development board to me or you.
I said pricing will probably be max 200 €.
Regards, Michael
Am 25.08.2015 um 07:41 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:
Plans change.
For some inexplicable reason (Michael? #twizycon?), we had a jump in order for the v2 modules. August is not even yet over, and they are going too quickly now. We are down to about 40 (of which I need to retain at least 10 for RMA/repair purposes).
The Arduino+Linux hybrid sample boards look to be delayed another month, and MBED OS was due in August 2015 but has yet to make an appearance.
I checked, and the supplier has just a few hundred SIM908 modules left.
Accordingly, I just put in an order for definitely-the-last-batch of 100x v2 modules. With four more months to go in the year, I’ll take the risk.
Hopefully we can start work on v3 next month, once we see the Arduino+Linux hybrid vs MBED OS options solidify. I suspect MBED OS won’t be finalised until 2016Q1 anyway. The guys I am working with in China suggest to first produce a small batch of development boards (not in a case, but functionally complete) so that we can start development work, and then work on packaging the board into a small footprint with case, certification, etc. I suspect that this could be a six month project to get a final v3 based packaged product, so those 140 remaining v2 modules should hopefully give us some breathing room.
I am excited about bluetooth and wifi options. Pricing for these has plummeted, and available options grown dramatically. I am hopeful that we can get a small board with cellular + gps + wifi + bluetooth radios, for a reasonable cost. Add on a bunch of flash (1GB+), SD-card, RAM (at least 128KB, maybe more), at least 2 CAN ports, and we’ll have a pretty amazing vehicle hacking and telemetry platform.
Regards, Mark
On 11 Aug, 2015, at 10:17 am, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
At the current rate, the batch we have of OVMS v2 modules will run out sometime in the next two months.
Given the imminent shutdown of AT&T’s 2G network in USA, global re-allocation of 2G frequency bands, and the difficulties we are having obtaining the discontinued SIM908, it is decision time.
Option #1: Re-order a large batch now, enough to last us into the new year, but with the risk that I’ll be personally stuck with them. Option #2: Just let the v2 modules run out, and move on with the plans for v3.
Development on v2 is stagnating. Partly because the platform already does what we need it to do, and partly because we’re hitting the limits (no external connectivity other than GPRS, single CAN bus, no storage, limited RAM, flash, etc).
The v3 plans have been on hold for some time, pending MBED OS release (first beta due this month) and the imminent release of hybrid processors such as that used in the UDOO Neo (due in September). We know what we want, but it is just too hard to pick a long-term platform when everything is on the cusp of changing.
I really want a v3 module. Something with lots of RAM and Flash, wifi, bluetooth and cellular connectivity, multiple CAN bus support, and a rich development platform. Something we can all use as a platform for reverse engineering as well as end-user connectivity. I’ll do everything I can to make this a reality. Just not today. Too much is changing and we need to wait for things to stabilise.
So, my gut feeling is to choose option #2. 2G GPRS is slowing dying, and building more on that platform just seems to be the wrong decision. This may leave us with several months of no platform stock, but I would rather people waited than spend $100 on something that is going to be obsolete/outdated. Kind of like buying an iPhone in August ;-) I don’t want to be stuck with the stock, and I don’t want people to buy a v2, only to have v3 come out a week later.
Even if we started now, which we can’t, an optimistic schedule for the first end-user v3 units would be early 2016.
So, tough decisions, but I really think option #2 is best. Bottom line is if you need v2 modules, order them now.
If you are likely to need a large quantity for any upcoming projects, let me know. The SIM908 modules will be unavailable within the next month or so, and changing to another module is a PITA I don’t want to deal with (especially given the tight RAM and FLASH we have now).
Regards, Mark.
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
-- Michael Balzer * Paradestr. 8 * D-42107 Wuppertal Fon 0202 / 272 2201 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
I agree, The unit has to be simple (actually i would have seen something modular, with optionnal means of comms, but it would be a pain on the SW side I suppose) Even a simple console port could do... or ethernet (being a network guy, not liking wifi latency) and an MQTT stack :-) [ question: will each means of communication be disable-able ? the Twizy has a cr*ppy service battery, the actual v2 eats it up in less than a week in the best case, killing the car literally if you're away from a plug, there is nearly no need for a continuosly powered GSM/GPS when the car isn't moving, or barely a status update on a regular basis or on events ] JaXX./. Le 26/08/2015 09:58, Mark Webb-Johnson a écrit :
Display is interesting, and something a few have asked about.
My suggestion was to keep this off the basic unit, as it is just too expensive and means the unit must be mounted in a visible position. It dramatically changes the housing design, and is hard to please everyone with one design. I would rather provide:
* A standard port that can be used to drive an external display * A standard protocol that can be used for external displays either via that port or via bluetooth/wifi/cellular comms link
That would mean a display could be run on an iPhone/Android device via bluetooth/wifi.
It would also mean that a dumb display couldn’t be used, which would drive up cost for those that wanted a display, but would give us the flexibility to add one for those that want it. It would also keep all the display code out of the core project and into a separate project.
Regards, Mark.
On 26 Aug, 2015, at 3:48 pm, Julien (JaXX) Banchet <jaxx@jaxx.org <mailto:jaxx@jaxx.org>> wrote:
Hi,
I have little personnal time but I'd still be highly interested in putting what I have on testing out a beta v3... I'm slowly working on a cluster replacement for the Twizy and having a board to preprocess comms to the CANbus (or moving what I'm doing to the "heavyweight" part of a Udoo Neo-like board) would be a great relief.
Yes, I intend to make those LCD-dashboard-savvy Mercedes and Jaguar drivers jealous :-)
So if there are any available slots for a test board or better/safer, an early version of a production board (to give priority to the devs, i'm in no hurry), count me in.
Best,
Julien JaXX Banchet
Le 26/08/2015 09:37, Mark Webb-Johnson a écrit :
Development boards are a tricky thing. Our suppliers hate making too many of them.
What I’ve told them this time is to firstly make a couple of test boards that we can use to validate all major functionality (can we program, can we reach all the auxiliary chips, do the lights flash, etc). Once we have that, then come up with a development board based on the test board design (without box, and more pinouts available) and make 10 of them hand-soldered. We’ll send those out to the guys developing vehicle modules to help with their porting processes.
Based on the feedback of the development boards, we can then re-layout the production board to optimise for the chosen case, and make the first production run (probably 100 to 200 units, machine soldered).
Regards, Mark.
On 25 Aug, 2015, at 4:04 pm, Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de <mailto:dexter@expeedo.de>> wrote:
Great news, thanks!
Please put me on the list for two of the V3 development boards.
I've forwarded your info to the Twizy forum. There are some active beta testers, I asked to send orders for the V3 development board to me or you.
I said pricing will probably be max 200 €.
Regards, Michael
Am 25.08.2015 um 07:41 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:
Plans change.
For some inexplicable reason (Michael? #twizycon?), we had a jump in order for the v2 modules. August is not even yet over, and they are going too quickly now. We are down to about 40 (of which I need to retain at least 10 for RMA/repair purposes).
The Arduino+Linux hybrid sample boards look to be delayed another month, and MBED OS was due in August 2015 but has yet to make an appearance.
I checked, and the supplier has just a few hundred SIM908 modules left.
Accordingly, I just put in an order for definitely-the-last-batch of 100x v2 modules. With four more months to go in the year, I’ll take the risk.
Hopefully we can start work on v3 next month, once we see the Arduino+Linux hybrid vs MBED OS options solidify. I suspect MBED OS won’t be finalised until 2016Q1 anyway. The guys I am working with in China suggest to first produce a small batch of development boards (not in a case, but functionally complete) so that we can start development work, and then work on packaging the board into a small footprint with case, certification, etc. I suspect that this could be a six month project to get a final v3 based packaged product, so those 140 remaining v2 modules should hopefully give us some breathing room.
I am excited about bluetooth and wifi options. Pricing for these has plummeted, and available options grown dramatically. I am hopeful that we can get a small board with cellular + gps + wifi + bluetooth radios, for a reasonable cost. Add on a bunch of flash (1GB+), SD-card, RAM (at least 128KB, maybe more), at least 2 CAN ports, and we’ll have a pretty amazing vehicle hacking and telemetry platform.
Regards, Mark
On 11 Aug, 2015, at 10:17 am, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net <mailto:mark@webb-johnson.net>> wrote:
At the current rate, the batch we have of OVMS v2 modules will run out sometime in the next two months.
Given the imminent shutdown of AT&T’s 2G network in USA, global re-allocation of 2G frequency bands, and the difficulties we are having obtaining the discontinued SIM908, it is decision time.
Option #1: Re-order a large batch now, enough to last us into the new year, but with the risk that I’ll be personally stuck with them. Option #2: Just let the v2 modules run out, and move on with the plans for v3.
Development on v2 is stagnating. Partly because the platform already does what we need it to do, and partly because we’re hitting the limits (no external connectivity other than GPRS, single CAN bus, no storage, limited RAM, flash, etc).
The v3 plans have been on hold for some time, pending MBED OS release (first beta due this month) and the imminent release of hybrid processors such as that used in the UDOO Neo (due in September). We know what we want, but it is just too hard to pick a long-term platform when everything is on the cusp of changing.
I really want a v3 module. Something with lots of RAM and Flash, wifi, bluetooth and cellular connectivity, multiple CAN bus support, and a rich development platform. Something we can all use as a platform for reverse engineering as well as end-user connectivity. I’ll do everything I can to make this a reality. Just not today. Too much is changing and we need to wait for things to stabilise.
So, my gut feeling is to choose option #2. 2G GPRS is slowing dying, and building more on that platform just seems to be the wrong decision. This may leave us with several months of no platform stock, but I would rather people waited than spend $100 on something that is going to be obsolete/outdated. Kind of like buying an iPhone in August ;-) I don’t want to be stuck with the stock, and I don’t want people to buy a v2, only to have v3 come out a week later.
Even if we started now, which we can’t, an optimistic schedule for the first end-user v3 units would be early 2016.
So, tough decisions, but I really think option #2 is best. Bottom line is if you need v2 modules, order them now.
If you are likely to need a large quantity for any upcoming projects, let me know. The SIM908 modules will be unavailable within the next month or so, and changing to another module is a PITA I don’t want to deal with (especially given the tight RAM and FLASH we have now).
Regards, Mark.
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk <mailto:OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk> http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
-- Michael Balzer * Paradestr. 8 * D-42107 Wuppertal Fon 0202 / 272 2201 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk <mailto:OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk> http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk <mailto:OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk> http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk <mailto:OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk> http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
Low power is one of our primary goals. The idea is that each module will be individually capable of being powered up/down or sleep/awake. In addition, we’ll use a proper switching power supply (the current ones literally burn 13V down to 5V and 3.3V). Finally, the framework will support the central processor being put to sleep. This is one of the reasons I am still interested in the hybrid Arduino/Linux design. I like the idea of a low power supervisor being able to sleep/awake a higher power processor. Regards, Mark.
On 26 Aug, 2015, at 4:21 pm, Julien (JaXX) Banchet <jaxx@jaxx.org> wrote:
I agree,
The unit has to be simple (actually i would have seen something modular, with optionnal means of comms, but it would be a pain on the SW side I suppose) Even a simple console port could do... or ethernet (being a network guy, not liking wifi latency) and an MQTT stack :-)
[ question: will each means of communication be disable-able ? the Twizy has a cr*ppy service battery, the actual v2 eats it up in less than a week in the best case, killing the car literally if you're away from a plug, there is nearly no need for a continuosly powered GSM/GPS when the car isn't moving, or barely a status update on a regular basis or on events ]
JaXX./.
Le 26/08/2015 09:58, Mark Webb-Johnson a écrit :
Display is interesting, and something a few have asked about.
My suggestion was to keep this off the basic unit, as it is just too expensive and means the unit must be mounted in a visible position. It dramatically changes the housing design, and is hard to please everyone with one design. I would rather provide:
A standard port that can be used to drive an external display A standard protocol that can be used for external displays either via that port or via bluetooth/wifi/cellular comms link
That would mean a display could be run on an iPhone/Android device via bluetooth/wifi.
It would also mean that a dumb display couldn’t be used, which would drive up cost for those that wanted a display, but would give us the flexibility to add one for those that want it. It would also keep all the display code out of the core project and into a separate project.
Regards, Mark.
On 26 Aug, 2015, at 3:48 pm, Julien (JaXX) Banchet <jaxx@jaxx.org <mailto:jaxx@jaxx.org>> wrote:
Hi,
I have little personnal time but I'd still be highly interested in putting what I have on testing out a beta v3... I'm slowly working on a cluster replacement for the Twizy and having a board to preprocess comms to the CANbus (or moving what I'm doing to the "heavyweight" part of a Udoo Neo-like board) would be a great relief.
Yes, I intend to make those LCD-dashboard-savvy Mercedes and Jaguar drivers jealous :-)
So if there are any available slots for a test board or better/safer, an early version of a production board (to give priority to the devs, i'm in no hurry), count me in.
Best,
Julien JaXX Banchet
Le 26/08/2015 09:37, Mark Webb-Johnson a écrit :
Development boards are a tricky thing. Our suppliers hate making too many of them.
What I’ve told them this time is to firstly make a couple of test boards that we can use to validate all major functionality (can we program, can we reach all the auxiliary chips, do the lights flash, etc). Once we have that, then come up with a development board based on the test board design (without box, and more pinouts available) and make 10 of them hand-soldered. We’ll send those out to the guys developing vehicle modules to help with their porting processes.
Based on the feedback of the development boards, we can then re-layout the production board to optimise for the chosen case, and make the first production run (probably 100 to 200 units, machine soldered).
Regards, Mark.
On 25 Aug, 2015, at 4:04 pm, Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de <mailto:dexter@expeedo.de>> wrote:
Great news, thanks!
Please put me on the list for two of the V3 development boards.
I've forwarded your info to the Twizy forum. There are some active beta testers, I asked to send orders for the V3 development board to me or you.
I said pricing will probably be max 200 €.
Regards, Michael
Am 25.08.2015 um 07:41 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:
Plans change.
For some inexplicable reason (Michael? #twizycon?), we had a jump in order for the v2 modules. August is not even yet over, and they are going too quickly now. We are down to about 40 (of which I need to retain at least 10 for RMA/repair purposes).
The Arduino+Linux hybrid sample boards look to be delayed another month, and MBED OS was due in August 2015 but has yet to make an appearance.
I checked, and the supplier has just a few hundred SIM908 modules left.
Accordingly, I just put in an order for definitely-the-last-batch of 100x v2 modules. With four more months to go in the year, I’ll take the risk.
Hopefully we can start work on v3 next month, once we see the Arduino+Linux hybrid vs MBED OS options solidify. I suspect MBED OS won’t be finalised until 2016Q1 anyway. The guys I am working with in China suggest to first produce a small batch of development boards (not in a case, but functionally complete) so that we can start development work, and then work on packaging the board into a small footprint with case, certification, etc. I suspect that this could be a six month project to get a final v3 based packaged product, so those 140 remaining v2 modules should hopefully give us some breathing room.
I am excited about bluetooth and wifi options. Pricing for these has plummeted, and available options grown dramatically. I am hopeful that we can get a small board with cellular + gps + wifi + bluetooth radios, for a reasonable cost. Add on a bunch of flash (1GB+), SD-card, RAM (at least 128KB, maybe more), at least 2 CAN ports, and we’ll have a pretty amazing vehicle hacking and telemetry platform.
Regards, Mark
> On 11 Aug, 2015, at 10:17 am, Mark Webb-Johnson < <mailto:mark@webb-johnson.net>mark@webb-johnson.net <mailto:mark@webb-johnson.net>> wrote: > > > At the current rate, the batch we have of OVMS v2 modules will run out sometime in the next two months. > > Given the imminent shutdown of AT&T’s 2G network in USA, global re-allocation of 2G frequency bands, and the difficulties we are having obtaining the discontinued SIM908, it is decision time. > > Option #1: Re-order a large batch now, enough to last us into the new year, but with the risk that I’ll be personally stuck with them. > Option #2: Just let the v2 modules run out, and move on with the plans for v3. > > Development on v2 is stagnating. Partly because the platform already does what we need it to do, and partly because we’re hitting the limits (no external connectivity other than GPRS, single CAN bus, no storage, limited RAM, flash, etc). > > The v3 plans have been on hold for some time, pending MBED OS release (first beta due this month) and the imminent release of hybrid processors such as that used in the UDOO Neo (due in September). We know what we want, but it is just too hard to pick a long-term platform when everything is on the cusp of changing. > > I really want a v3 module. Something with lots of RAM and Flash, wifi, bluetooth and cellular connectivity, multiple CAN bus support, and a rich development platform. Something we can all use as a platform for reverse engineering as well as end-user connectivity. I’ll do everything I can to make this a reality. Just not today. Too much is changing and we need to wait for things to stabilise. > > So, my gut feeling is to choose option #2. 2G GPRS is slowing dying, and building more on that platform just seems to be the wrong decision. This may leave us with several months of no platform stock, but I would rather people waited than spend $100 on something that is going to be obsolete/outdated. Kind of like buying an iPhone in August ;-) I don’t want to be stuck with the stock, and I don’t want people to buy a v2, only to have v3 come out a week later. > > Even if we started now, which we can’t, an optimistic schedule for the first end-user v3 units would be early 2016. > > So, tough decisions, but I really think option #2 is best. Bottom line is if you need v2 modules, order them now. > > If you are likely to need a large quantity for any upcoming projects, let me know. The SIM908 modules will be unavailable within the next month or so, and changing to another module is a PITA I don’t want to deal with (especially given the tight RAM and FLASH we have now). > > Regards, Mark. > _______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk <mailto:OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk> http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev <http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev>
-- Michael Balzer * Paradestr. 8 * D-42107 Wuppertal Fon 0202 / 272 2201 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk <mailto:OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk> http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev <http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev>
OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk <mailto:OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk> http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev <http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev>
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk <mailto:OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk> http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev <http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev>
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk <mailto:OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk> http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev <http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev>
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
I've been working on a similar device for a while, and I have a very nice working prototype that may help: https://hackaday.io/project/7134-crunchtrack It already has an mbed-compatible STM32F3 Cortex M4, GPS and GSM modules, a switching power supply, SD card slot, USB port, and fits inside a small ELM327 dongle case: the board itself is 4x2 cm [ https://hackaday.io/project/7134/gallery#fab1dd8fe131e0410d64b3615e04458a ]. So it can be used standalone, or as a module that can be plugged on a linux board to handle communication and low-power modes. The OBD connector adapter board has jumpers to connect to one of the Leaf's CAN buses or to the standard one. The GPS is a high quality Ublox 7 module that can be put in sleep mode and has various power saving modes. The GSM module is still a SIMCOM one, based on Mediatek chipset. On the bottom connector there are some IOs, an UART, SPI, I2C, and on the top debug connector there's a spare UART that may be used to add a Bluetooth module or an ESP8266 wifi module. I'm thinking about upgrading to a STM32F4 MCU to get 2 CAN buses and more power/memory (1M vs 512K) but that will mean moving to BGA and a 4 layer board, making it harder for the end user to rework and modify. The device is open source, and I'd love to give back to the OVMS project. Do you think this can be a starting point for v3? Regards Mastro Gippo On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
Low power is one of our primary goals.
The idea is that each module will be individually capable of being powered up/down or sleep/awake. In addition, we’ll use a proper switching power supply (the current ones literally burn 13V down to 5V and 3.3V). Finally, the framework will support the central processor being put to sleep.
This is one of the reasons I am still interested in the hybrid Arduino/Linux design. I like the idea of a low power supervisor being able to sleep/awake a higher power processor.
Regards, Mark.
On 26 Aug, 2015, at 4:21 pm, Julien (JaXX) Banchet <jaxx@jaxx.org> wrote:
I agree,
The unit has to be simple (actually i would have seen something modular, with optionnal means of comms, but it would be a pain on the SW side I suppose) Even a simple console port could do... or ethernet (being a network guy, not liking wifi latency) and an MQTT stack :-)
[ question: will each means of communication be disable-able ? the Twizy has a cr*ppy service battery, the actual v2 eats it up in less than a week in the best case, killing the car literally if you're away from a plug, there is nearly no need for a continuosly powered GSM/GPS when the car isn't moving, or barely a status update on a regular basis or on events ]
JaXX./.
Le 26/08/2015 09:58, Mark Webb-Johnson a écrit :
Display is interesting, and something a few have asked about.
My suggestion was to keep this off the basic unit, as it is just too expensive and means the unit must be mounted in a visible position. It dramatically changes the housing design, and is hard to please everyone with one design. I would rather provide:
- A standard port that can be used to drive an external display - A standard protocol that can be used for external displays either via that port or via bluetooth/wifi/cellular comms link
That would mean a display could be run on an iPhone/Android device via bluetooth/wifi.
It would also mean that a dumb display couldn’t be used, which would drive up cost for those that wanted a display, but would give us the flexibility to add one for those that want it. It would also keep all the display code out of the core project and into a separate project.
Regards, Mark.
On 26 Aug, 2015, at 3:48 pm, Julien (JaXX) Banchet <jaxx@jaxx.org> wrote:
Hi,
I have little personnal time but I'd still be highly interested in putting what I have on testing out a beta v3... I'm slowly working on a cluster replacement for the Twizy and having a board to preprocess comms to the CANbus (or moving what I'm doing to the "heavyweight" part of a Udoo Neo-like board) would be a great relief.
Yes, I intend to make those LCD-dashboard-savvy Mercedes and Jaguar drivers jealous :-)
So if there are any available slots for a test board or better/safer, an early version of a production board (to give priority to the devs, i'm in no hurry), count me in.
Best,
Julien JaXX Banchet
Le 26/08/2015 09:37, Mark Webb-Johnson a écrit :
Development boards are a tricky thing. Our suppliers hate making too many of them.
What I’ve told them this time is to firstly make a couple of test boards that we can use to validate all major functionality (can we program, can we reach all the auxiliary chips, do the lights flash, etc). Once we have that, then come up with a development board based on the test board design (without box, and more pinouts available) and make 10 of them hand-soldered. We’ll send those out to the guys developing vehicle modules to help with their porting processes.
Based on the feedback of the development boards, we can then re-layout the production board to optimise for the chosen case, and make the first production run (probably 100 to 200 units, machine soldered).
Regards, Mark.
On 25 Aug, 2015, at 4:04 pm, Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de> wrote:
Great news, thanks!
Please put me on the list for two of the V3 development boards.
I've forwarded your info to the Twizy forum. There are some active beta testers, I asked to send orders for the V3 development board to me or you.
I said pricing will probably be max 200 €.
Regards, Michael
Am 25.08.2015 um 07:41 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:
Plans change.
For some inexplicable reason (Michael? #twizycon?), we had a jump in order for the v2 modules. August is not even yet over, and they are going too quickly now. We are down to about 40 (of which I need to retain at least 10 for RMA/repair purposes).
The Arduino+Linux hybrid sample boards look to be delayed another month, and MBED OS was due in August 2015 but has yet to make an appearance.
I checked, and the supplier has just a few hundred SIM908 modules left.
Accordingly, I just put in an order for definitely-the-last-batch of 100x v2 modules. With four more months to go in the year, I’ll take the risk.
Hopefully we can start work on v3 next month, once we see the Arduino+Linux hybrid vs MBED OS options solidify. I suspect MBED OS won’t be finalised until 2016Q1 anyway. The guys I am working with in China suggest to first produce a small batch of development boards (not in a case, but functionally complete) so that we can start development work, and then work on packaging the board into a small footprint with case, certification, etc. I suspect that this could be a six month project to get a final v3 based packaged product, so those 140 remaining v2 modules should hopefully give us some breathing room.
I am excited about bluetooth and wifi options. Pricing for these has plummeted, and available options grown dramatically. I am hopeful that we can get a small board with cellular + gps + wifi + bluetooth radios, for a reasonable cost. Add on a bunch of flash (1GB+), SD-card, RAM (at least 128KB, maybe more), at least 2 CAN ports, and we’ll have a pretty amazing vehicle hacking and telemetry platform.
Regards, Mark
On 11 Aug, 2015, at 10:17 am, Mark Webb-Johnson < <mark@webb-johnson.net> mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
At the current rate, the batch we have of OVMS v2 modules will run out sometime in the next two months.
Given the imminent shutdown of AT&T’s 2G network in USA, global re-allocation of 2G frequency bands, and the difficulties we are having obtaining the discontinued SIM908, it is decision time.
Option #1: Re-order a large batch now, enough to last us into the new year, but with the risk that I’ll be personally stuck with them. Option #2: Just let the v2 modules run out, and move on with the plans for v3.
Development on v2 is stagnating. Partly because the platform already does what we need it to do, and partly because we’re hitting the limits (no external connectivity other than GPRS, single CAN bus, no storage, limited RAM, flash, etc).
The v3 plans have been on hold for some time, pending MBED OS release (first beta due this month) and the imminent release of hybrid processors such as that used in the UDOO Neo (due in September). We know what we want, but it is just too hard to pick a long-term platform when everything is on the cusp of changing.
I really want a v3 module. Something with lots of RAM and Flash, wifi, bluetooth and cellular connectivity, multiple CAN bus support, and a rich development platform. Something we can all use as a platform for reverse engineering as well as end-user connectivity. I’ll do everything I can to make this a reality. Just not today. Too much is changing and we need to wait for things to stabilise.
So, my gut feeling is to choose option #2. 2G GPRS is slowing dying, and building more on that platform just seems to be the wrong decision. This may leave us with several months of no platform stock, but I would rather people waited than spend $100 on something that is going to be obsolete/outdated. Kind of like buying an iPhone in August ;-) I don’t want to be stuck with the stock, and I don’t want people to buy a v2, only to have v3 come out a week later.
Even if we started now, which we can’t, an optimistic schedule for the first end-user v3 units would be early 2016.
So, tough decisions, but I really think option #2 is best. Bottom line is if you need v2 modules, order them now.
If you are likely to need a large quantity for any upcoming projects, let me know. The SIM908 modules will be unavailable within the next month or so, and changing to another module is a PITA I don’t want to deal with (especially given the tight RAM and FLASH we have now).
Regards, Mark.
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
-- Michael Balzer * Paradestr. 8 * D-42107 Wuppertal Fon 0202 / 272 2201 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing listOvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hkhttp://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
Mastro, Looks neat, and tiny! Can I ask what is the development environment for it? Presumably the GNU embedded toolchain? What firmware flasher do you use? It is missing quite a bit for OVMS v3 (3G, Wifi, Bluetooth, dual CAN, and the memory flash/ram would be too small), but may be a good starting point. My biggest concern would be the development environment. We really want to make this as simple as possible for developers to get involved (nothing proprietary, no weird toolchains, windows+linux+osx support, etc). Regards, Mark.
On 26 Aug, 2015, at 7:23 pm, Mastro Gippo <gipmad@gmail.com> wrote:
I've been working on a similar device for a while, and I have a very nice working prototype that may help: https://hackaday.io/project/7134-crunchtrack <https://hackaday.io/project/7134-crunchtrack> It already has an mbed-compatible STM32F3 Cortex M4, GPS and GSM modules, a switching power supply, SD card slot, USB port, and fits inside a small ELM327 dongle case: the board itself is 4x2 cm [ https://hackaday.io/project/7134/gallery#fab1dd8fe131e0410d64b3615e04458a <https://hackaday.io/project/7134/gallery#fab1dd8fe131e0410d64b3615e04458a> ]. So it can be used standalone, or as a module that can be plugged on a linux board to handle communication and low-power modes. The OBD connector adapter board has jumpers to connect to one of the Leaf's CAN buses or to the standard one. The GPS is a high quality Ublox 7 module that can be put in sleep mode and has various power saving modes. The GSM module is still a SIMCOM one, based on Mediatek chipset. On the bottom connector there are some IOs, an UART, SPI, I2C, and on the top debug connector there's a spare UART that may be used to add a Bluetooth module or an ESP8266 wifi module. I'm thinking about upgrading to a STM32F4 MCU to get 2 CAN buses and more power/memory (1M vs 512K) but that will mean moving to BGA and a 4 layer board, making it harder for the end user to rework and modify. The device is open source, and I'd love to give back to the OVMS project. Do you think this can be a starting point for v3?
Regards Mastro Gippo
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net <mailto:mark@webb-johnson.net>> wrote: Low power is one of our primary goals.
The idea is that each module will be individually capable of being powered up/down or sleep/awake. In addition, we’ll use a proper switching power supply (the current ones literally burn 13V down to 5V and 3.3V). Finally, the framework will support the central processor being put to sleep.
This is one of the reasons I am still interested in the hybrid Arduino/Linux design. I like the idea of a low power supervisor being able to sleep/awake a higher power processor.
Regards, Mark.
On 26 Aug, 2015, at 4:21 pm, Julien (JaXX) Banchet <jaxx@jaxx.org <mailto:jaxx@jaxx.org>> wrote:
I agree,
The unit has to be simple (actually i would have seen something modular, with optionnal means of comms, but it would be a pain on the SW side I suppose) Even a simple console port could do... or ethernet (being a network guy, not liking wifi latency) and an MQTT stack :-)
[ question: will each means of communication be disable-able ? the Twizy has a cr*ppy service battery, the actual v2 eats it up in less than a week in the best case, killing the car literally if you're away from a plug, there is nearly no need for a continuosly powered GSM/GPS when the car isn't moving, or barely a status update on a regular basis or on events ]
JaXX./.
Le 26/08/2015 09:58, Mark Webb-Johnson a écrit :
Display is interesting, and something a few have asked about.
My suggestion was to keep this off the basic unit, as it is just too expensive and means the unit must be mounted in a visible position. It dramatically changes the housing design, and is hard to please everyone with one design. I would rather provide:
A standard port that can be used to drive an external display A standard protocol that can be used for external displays either via that port or via bluetooth/wifi/cellular comms link
That would mean a display could be run on an iPhone/Android device via bluetooth/wifi.
It would also mean that a dumb display couldn’t be used, which would drive up cost for those that wanted a display, but would give us the flexibility to add one for those that want it. It would also keep all the display code out of the core project and into a separate project.
Regards, Mark.
On 26 Aug, 2015, at 3:48 pm, Julien (JaXX) Banchet <jaxx@jaxx.org <mailto:jaxx@jaxx.org>> wrote:
Hi,
I have little personnal time but I'd still be highly interested in putting what I have on testing out a beta v3... I'm slowly working on a cluster replacement for the Twizy and having a board to preprocess comms to the CANbus (or moving what I'm doing to the "heavyweight" part of a Udoo Neo-like board) would be a great relief.
Yes, I intend to make those LCD-dashboard-savvy Mercedes and Jaguar drivers jealous :-)
So if there are any available slots for a test board or better/safer, an early version of a production board (to give priority to the devs, i'm in no hurry), count me in.
Best,
Julien JaXX Banchet
Le 26/08/2015 09:37, Mark Webb-Johnson a écrit :
Development boards are a tricky thing. Our suppliers hate making too many of them.
What I’ve told them this time is to firstly make a couple of test boards that we can use to validate all major functionality (can we program, can we reach all the auxiliary chips, do the lights flash, etc). Once we have that, then come up with a development board based on the test board design (without box, and more pinouts available) and make 10 of them hand-soldered. We’ll send those out to the guys developing vehicle modules to help with their porting processes.
Based on the feedback of the development boards, we can then re-layout the production board to optimise for the chosen case, and make the first production run (probably 100 to 200 units, machine soldered).
Regards, Mark.
On 25 Aug, 2015, at 4:04 pm, Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de <mailto:dexter@expeedo.de>> wrote:
Great news, thanks!
Please put me on the list for two of the V3 development boards.
I've forwarded your info to the Twizy forum. There are some active beta testers, I asked to send orders for the V3 development board to me or you.
I said pricing will probably be max 200 €.
Regards, Michael
Am 25.08.2015 um 07:41 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson: > Plans change. > > For some inexplicable reason (Michael? #twizycon?), we had a jump in order for the v2 modules. August is not even yet over, and they are going too quickly now. We are down to about 40 (of which I need to retain at least 10 for RMA/repair purposes). > > The Arduino+Linux hybrid sample boards look to be delayed another month, and MBED OS was due in August 2015 but has yet to make an appearance. > > I checked, and the supplier has just a few hundred SIM908 modules left. > > Accordingly, I just put in an order for definitely-the-last-batch of 100x v2 modules. With four more months to go in the year, I’ll take the risk. > > Hopefully we can start work on v3 next month, once we see the Arduino+Linux hybrid vs MBED OS options solidify. I suspect MBED OS won’t be finalised until 2016Q1 anyway. The guys I am working with in China suggest to first produce a small batch of development boards (not in a case, but functionally complete) so that we can start development work, and then work on packaging the board into a small footprint with case, certification, etc. I suspect that this could be a six month project to get a final v3 based packaged product, so those 140 remaining v2 modules should hopefully give us some breathing room. > > I am excited about bluetooth and wifi options. Pricing for these has plummeted, and available options grown dramatically. I am hopeful that we can get a small board with cellular + gps + wifi + bluetooth radios, for a reasonable cost. Add on a bunch of flash (1GB+), SD-card, RAM (at least 128KB, maybe more), at least 2 CAN ports, and we’ll have a pretty amazing vehicle hacking and telemetry platform. > > Regards, Mark > >> On 11 Aug, 2015, at 10:17 am, Mark Webb-Johnson < <mailto:mark@webb-johnson.net>mark@webb-johnson.net <mailto:mark@webb-johnson.net>> wrote: >> >> >> At the current rate, the batch we have of OVMS v2 modules will run out sometime in the next two months. >> >> Given the imminent shutdown of AT&T’s 2G network in USA, global re-allocation of 2G frequency bands, and the difficulties we are having obtaining the discontinued SIM908, it is decision time. >> >> Option #1: Re-order a large batch now, enough to last us into the new year, but with the risk that I’ll be personally stuck with them. >> Option #2: Just let the v2 modules run out, and move on with the plans for v3. >> >> Development on v2 is stagnating. Partly because the platform already does what we need it to do, and partly because we’re hitting the limits (no external connectivity other than GPRS, single CAN bus, no storage, limited RAM, flash, etc). >> >> The v3 plans have been on hold for some time, pending MBED OS release (first beta due this month) and the imminent release of hybrid processors such as that used in the UDOO Neo (due in September). We know what we want, but it is just too hard to pick a long-term platform when everything is on the cusp of changing. >> >> I really want a v3 module. Something with lots of RAM and Flash, wifi, bluetooth and cellular connectivity, multiple CAN bus support, and a rich development platform. Something we can all use as a platform for reverse engineering as well as end-user connectivity. I’ll do everything I can to make this a reality. Just not today. Too much is changing and we need to wait for things to stabilise. >> >> So, my gut feeling is to choose option #2. 2G GPRS is slowing dying, and building more on that platform just seems to be the wrong decision. This may leave us with several months of no platform stock, but I would rather people waited than spend $100 on something that is going to be obsolete/outdated. Kind of like buying an iPhone in August ;-) I don’t want to be stuck with the stock, and I don’t want people to buy a v2, only to have v3 come out a week later. >> >> Even if we started now, which we can’t, an optimistic schedule for the first end-user v3 units would be early 2016. >> >> So, tough decisions, but I really think option #2 is best. Bottom line is if you need v2 modules, order them now. >> >> If you are likely to need a large quantity for any upcoming projects, let me know. The SIM908 modules will be unavailable within the next month or so, and changing to another module is a PITA I don’t want to deal with (especially given the tight RAM and FLASH we have now). >> >> Regards, Mark. >> > _______________________________________________ > OvmsDev mailing list > OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk <mailto:OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk> > http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev <http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev>
-- Michael Balzer * Paradestr. 8 * D-42107 Wuppertal Fon 0202 / 272 2201 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk <mailto:OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk> http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev <http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev>
OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk <mailto:OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk> http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev <http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev>
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk <mailto:OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk> http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev <http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev>
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk <mailto:OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk> http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev <http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev>
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk <mailto:OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk> http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev <http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev>
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk <mailto:OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk> http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev <http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev>
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
Thanks Mark! :) I started debugging it with the mbed environment, that is online and as you know can export sources for all kind of toolchains, even the GNU one. So far I had no luck with that, I'm waiting for a friend to help me as I'm more of a hardware guy. To flash and debug it I use the Nucleo board sawed off + an adapter board, that's about 15$ total, as you can see here: https://hackaday.io/project/7134/gallery#6ab4e571cde23564ea39330d5d7c4921 I decided to wait for 3G, because modules are still outrageously expensive (~30$+) and the fuss about the discontinuation in the US seemed a bit too hyped. I talked about that to a bunch of module vendors/providers at an M2M conference, and it seems that basic coverage will still be available for a few years after 2017 as there are way too many M2M devices still out there. After that, I already found the perfect GSM module to replace mine (unless SIMCOM comes up with another good one with 3G), I'm just waiting for the price to drop. It's also a bit difficult to get small quantities of it. As we talked earlier, yes, flash is a bit small for the universal module, but the USB bootloader could allow the development of different forks for the various vehicles to keep the size down, so the user can easily flash the right version for his car. A bigger MCU with 1MB memory and 2 CAN bus can be fitted but as I said I'd need to migrate the design to BGA... I'm already very tempted to do that, as there's way more support for the STM32F4 than for the STM32F3. Let's say it's in my bucket list. Wifi and bluetooth can be added with the expansion port, adding another layer, with the spare UART. Shouldn't be a problem! Regards Mastro Gippo On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 4:20 PM, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
Mastro,
Looks neat, and tiny!
Can I ask what is the development environment for it? Presumably the GNU embedded toolchain? What firmware flasher do you use?
It is missing quite a bit for OVMS v3 (3G, Wifi, Bluetooth, dual CAN, and the memory flash/ram would be too small), but may be a good starting point. My biggest concern would be the development environment. We really want to make this as simple as possible for developers to get involved (nothing proprietary, no weird toolchains, windows+linux+osx support, etc).
Regards, Mark.
On 26 Aug, 2015, at 7:23 pm, Mastro Gippo <gipmad@gmail.com> wrote:
I've been working on a similar device for a while, and I have a very nice working prototype that may help: https://hackaday.io/project/7134-crunchtrack It already has an mbed-compatible STM32F3 Cortex M4, GPS and GSM modules, a switching power supply, SD card slot, USB port, and fits inside a small ELM327 dongle case: the board itself is 4x2 cm [ https://hackaday.io/project/7134/gallery#fab1dd8fe131e0410d64b3615e04458a ]. So it can be used standalone, or as a module that can be plugged on a linux board to handle communication and low-power modes. The OBD connector adapter board has jumpers to connect to one of the Leaf's CAN buses or to the standard one. The GPS is a high quality Ublox 7 module that can be put in sleep mode and has various power saving modes. The GSM module is still a SIMCOM one, based on Mediatek chipset. On the bottom connector there are some IOs, an UART, SPI, I2C, and on the top debug connector there's a spare UART that may be used to add a Bluetooth module or an ESP8266 wifi module. I'm thinking about upgrading to a STM32F4 MCU to get 2 CAN buses and more power/memory (1M vs 512K) but that will mean moving to BGA and a 4 layer board, making it harder for the end user to rework and modify. The device is open source, and I'd love to give back to the OVMS project. Do you think this can be a starting point for v3?
Regards Mastro Gippo
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net
wrote:
Low power is one of our primary goals.
The idea is that each module will be individually capable of being powered up/down or sleep/awake. In addition, we’ll use a proper switching power supply (the current ones literally burn 13V down to 5V and 3.3V). Finally, the framework will support the central processor being put to sleep.
This is one of the reasons I am still interested in the hybrid Arduino/Linux design. I like the idea of a low power supervisor being able to sleep/awake a higher power processor.
Regards, Mark.
On 26 Aug, 2015, at 4:21 pm, Julien (JaXX) Banchet <jaxx@jaxx.org> wrote:
I agree,
The unit has to be simple (actually i would have seen something modular, with optionnal means of comms, but it would be a pain on the SW side I suppose) Even a simple console port could do... or ethernet (being a network guy, not liking wifi latency) and an MQTT stack :-)
[ question: will each means of communication be disable-able ? the Twizy has a cr*ppy service battery, the actual v2 eats it up in less than a week in the best case, killing the car literally if you're away from a plug, there is nearly no need for a continuosly powered GSM/GPS when the car isn't moving, or barely a status update on a regular basis or on events ]
JaXX./.
Le 26/08/2015 09:58, Mark Webb-Johnson a écrit :
Display is interesting, and something a few have asked about.
My suggestion was to keep this off the basic unit, as it is just too expensive and means the unit must be mounted in a visible position. It dramatically changes the housing design, and is hard to please everyone with one design. I would rather provide:
- A standard port that can be used to drive an external display - A standard protocol that can be used for external displays either via that port or via bluetooth/wifi/cellular comms link
That would mean a display could be run on an iPhone/Android device via bluetooth/wifi.
It would also mean that a dumb display couldn’t be used, which would drive up cost for those that wanted a display, but would give us the flexibility to add one for those that want it. It would also keep all the display code out of the core project and into a separate project.
Regards, Mark.
On 26 Aug, 2015, at 3:48 pm, Julien (JaXX) Banchet <jaxx@jaxx.org> wrote:
Hi,
I have little personnal time but I'd still be highly interested in putting what I have on testing out a beta v3... I'm slowly working on a cluster replacement for the Twizy and having a board to preprocess comms to the CANbus (or moving what I'm doing to the "heavyweight" part of a Udoo Neo-like board) would be a great relief.
Yes, I intend to make those LCD-dashboard-savvy Mercedes and Jaguar drivers jealous :-)
So if there are any available slots for a test board or better/safer, an early version of a production board (to give priority to the devs, i'm in no hurry), count me in.
Best,
Julien JaXX Banchet
Le 26/08/2015 09:37, Mark Webb-Johnson a écrit :
Development boards are a tricky thing. Our suppliers hate making too many of them.
What I’ve told them this time is to firstly make a couple of test boards that we can use to validate all major functionality (can we program, can we reach all the auxiliary chips, do the lights flash, etc). Once we have that, then come up with a development board based on the test board design (without box, and more pinouts available) and make 10 of them hand-soldered. We’ll send those out to the guys developing vehicle modules to help with their porting processes.
Based on the feedback of the development boards, we can then re-layout the production board to optimise for the chosen case, and make the first production run (probably 100 to 200 units, machine soldered).
Regards, Mark.
On 25 Aug, 2015, at 4:04 pm, Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de> wrote:
Great news, thanks!
Please put me on the list for two of the V3 development boards.
I've forwarded your info to the Twizy forum. There are some active beta testers, I asked to send orders for the V3 development board to me or you.
I said pricing will probably be max 200 €.
Regards, Michael
Am 25.08.2015 um 07:41 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:
Plans change.
For some inexplicable reason (Michael? #twizycon?), we had a jump in order for the v2 modules. August is not even yet over, and they are going too quickly now. We are down to about 40 (of which I need to retain at least 10 for RMA/repair purposes).
The Arduino+Linux hybrid sample boards look to be delayed another month, and MBED OS was due in August 2015 but has yet to make an appearance.
I checked, and the supplier has just a few hundred SIM908 modules left.
Accordingly, I just put in an order for definitely-the-last-batch of 100x v2 modules. With four more months to go in the year, I’ll take the risk.
Hopefully we can start work on v3 next month, once we see the Arduino+Linux hybrid vs MBED OS options solidify. I suspect MBED OS won’t be finalised until 2016Q1 anyway. The guys I am working with in China suggest to first produce a small batch of development boards (not in a case, but functionally complete) so that we can start development work, and then work on packaging the board into a small footprint with case, certification, etc. I suspect that this could be a six month project to get a final v3 based packaged product, so those 140 remaining v2 modules should hopefully give us some breathing room.
I am excited about bluetooth and wifi options. Pricing for these has plummeted, and available options grown dramatically. I am hopeful that we can get a small board with cellular + gps + wifi + bluetooth radios, for a reasonable cost. Add on a bunch of flash (1GB+), SD-card, RAM (at least 128KB, maybe more), at least 2 CAN ports, and we’ll have a pretty amazing vehicle hacking and telemetry platform.
Regards, Mark
On 11 Aug, 2015, at 10:17 am, Mark Webb-Johnson < <mark@webb-johnson.net> mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
At the current rate, the batch we have of OVMS v2 modules will run out sometime in the next two months.
Given the imminent shutdown of AT&T’s 2G network in USA, global re-allocation of 2G frequency bands, and the difficulties we are having obtaining the discontinued SIM908, it is decision time.
Option #1: Re-order a large batch now, enough to last us into the new year, but with the risk that I’ll be personally stuck with them. Option #2: Just let the v2 modules run out, and move on with the plans for v3.
Development on v2 is stagnating. Partly because the platform already does what we need it to do, and partly because we’re hitting the limits (no external connectivity other than GPRS, single CAN bus, no storage, limited RAM, flash, etc).
The v3 plans have been on hold for some time, pending MBED OS release (first beta due this month) and the imminent release of hybrid processors such as that used in the UDOO Neo (due in September). We know what we want, but it is just too hard to pick a long-term platform when everything is on the cusp of changing.
I really want a v3 module. Something with lots of RAM and Flash, wifi, bluetooth and cellular connectivity, multiple CAN bus support, and a rich development platform. Something we can all use as a platform for reverse engineering as well as end-user connectivity. I’ll do everything I can to make this a reality. Just not today. Too much is changing and we need to wait for things to stabilise.
So, my gut feeling is to choose option #2. 2G GPRS is slowing dying, and building more on that platform just seems to be the wrong decision. This may leave us with several months of no platform stock, but I would rather people waited than spend $100 on something that is going to be obsolete/outdated. Kind of like buying an iPhone in August ;-) I don’t want to be stuck with the stock, and I don’t want people to buy a v2, only to have v3 come out a week later.
Even if we started now, which we can’t, an optimistic schedule for the first end-user v3 units would be early 2016.
So, tough decisions, but I really think option #2 is best. Bottom line is if you need v2 modules, order them now.
If you are likely to need a large quantity for any upcoming projects, let me know. The SIM908 modules will be unavailable within the next month or so, and changing to another module is a PITA I don’t want to deal with (especially given the tight RAM and FLASH we have now).
Regards, Mark.
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
-- Michael Balzer * Paradestr. 8 * D-42107 Wuppertal Fon 0202 / 272 2201 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing listOvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hkhttp://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
Mark, Am 25.08.2015 um 07:41 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:
I checked, and the supplier has just a few hundred SIM908 modules left.
Accordingly, I just put in an order for definitely-the-last-batch of 100x v2 modules. With four more months to go in the year, I’ll take the risk.
Fasttech now is out of stock on modules... is that the end of V2? Renault just lowered the Twizy price by 2000 €... Regards, Michael -- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 8335735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
Do we have a link to the new price? And is it just in parts of Europe, or across all European countries? ᐧ [image: --] Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield [image: https://]about.me/aminorjourney <https://about.me/aminorjourney?promo=email_sig> On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 9:48 AM, Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de> wrote:
Mark,
Am 25.08.2015 um 07:41 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:
I checked, and the supplier has just a few hundred SIM908 modules left.
Accordingly, I just put in an order for definitely-the-last-batch of 100x v2 modules. With four more months to go in the year, I’ll take the risk.
Fasttech now is out of stock on modules... is that the end of V2?
Renault just lowered the Twizy price by 2000 €...
Regards, Michael
-- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 8335735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
Hi all,
Am 15.02.2016 um 20:30 schrieb Julien Banchet <jaxx@jaxx.org>:
On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de> wrote: Renault just lowered the Twizy price by 2000 €...
What ? Where ? Not only there's no incentive (because it's not a car per say) but 2k on a >7k is gonna piss previous owners, starting by myself
looks like only germany right now. http://www.renault.de/top-angebote/aktuelle-angebote.jsp?model=twizy until 30.04.2016
Germany: http://www.renault.de/renault-modellpalette/ze-elektrofahrzeuge/twizy/twizy/ It's the same strategy as with the Zoe, which has been available with 5000 € off for half a year now: http://www.renault.de/renault-modellpalette/ze-elektrofahrzeuge/zoe/zoe/ It's officially limited until end of April, but the Zoe discount originally was limited to end of last year, has now been changed to end of April. I think they will continue this offer until Germany introduces real incentives. And yes, owners may be pissed if they now need to sell theirs. Most owners I know think this is good for Twizy sales. Regards, Michael Am 15.02.2016 um 20:30 schrieb Julien Banchet:
On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de <mailto:dexter@expeedo.de>> wrote:
Renault just lowered the Twizy price by 2000 €...
What ? Where ? Not only there's no incentive (because it's not a car per say) but 2k on a >7k is gonna piss previous owners, starting by myself !
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
-- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 8335735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
On 02/15/2016 08:49 PM, Michael Balzer wrote:
I think they will continue this offer until Germany introduces real incentives.
I don't know how the situation is in Germany, I can't say incentives are of a silly amount in France since they get actually pretty nice if you turn in your old diesel... The only problem imho is that the Twizy, being in the L6e/L7e category, has no incentive at all, while it can have a positive effect in ecological terms, and parking congestion (since, they would have bought a barely more expensive ordinary car if they didn't have the twizy choice I guess)... There has been a petition going on to get it considered, but well, the government seems more interested in becoming totalitarian than green. (that's a whole other subject to discuss around huge amounts of beer)
And yes, owners may be pissed if they now need to sell theirs.
Most owners I know think this is good for Twizy sales. True, well, gonna write to the Standesamt I in Berlin and get my German papers done, maybe I'd be able to buy one 2k€ off :-)
Regards, Michael
Am 15.02.2016 um 20:30 schrieb Julien Banchet:
On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de> wrote:
Renault just lowered the Twizy price by 2000 €...
What ? Where ? Not only there's no incentive (because it's not a car per say) but 2k on a >7k is gonna piss previous owners, starting by myself !
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
-- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 8335735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
I put this announcement on TMC. Worth publicising here as well (and apologies I forgot to do it): Here's the official statement - or as close to official as Open Vehicles gets We are aware of the upcoming decommissioning of 2G GPRS systems by some regional carriers. Today, there are millions of 2G M2M (machine-to-machine) devices in the field today, and it will take some time to upgrade those devices to 3G/4G, and some may simply never be upgraded. The approach taken by most is to switch carrier to one still supporting 2G GPRS. The SIM908 module we currently use for OVMS is already past end-of-life and remaining stocks are extremely limited and expensive. There is a replacement SIM808 radio module, with similar specification to SIM908 but that requires modifications to our board layout. We are currently out of stock of OVMS v2 modules (using SIM908), and trying to arrange a final batch (v2.5) using SIM808 modules. Hopefully this final batch will be available during March 2016 timeframe. OVMS v2 is a 2G system, without WIFI or BLUETOOTH. Longer term, we are working hard on the OVMS v3 system. Specifications and timeline are subject to change, but the following notes on OVMS v3 may help: We will use 32bit ARM architecture, support multiple CAN buses, and be very extensible. We are trying to get as much RAM and FLASH memory as possible, to avoid the limitations of the OVMS v2 architecture. We anticipate being able to maintain the same DB9, antenna, and GPS connectors, so as to be a simple plug-in replacement. Apps will be backwards compatible (supporting both OVMS v2 and v3 modules). The design is for a base module to support at least 2 CAN buses, with SD card, USB, WIFI and BLUETOOTH connectivity as standard. 3G/4G connectivity will be provided by an optional plug-in module (with different modules available for different regional requirements, and making it easy to replace the module without having to replace the entire OVMS system). Expansion will be via plug-in modules, and expansion connectors. Firmware will be all new, based on a multi-threaded embedded RTOS. The base module will be able to perform CAN bus logging over USB, WIFI and/or BLUETOOTH. The base module will also be able to perform the usual OVMS functionality (but you will need a 3G/4G radio module if you want to be able to receive alerts or check vehicle status when out of WIFI/BLUETOOTH range). We anticipate having an extremely limited number of development boards available 2016Q2, for firmware developers. The OVMS v3 production modules should be available sometime during the second half of 2016. I hope that the above helps. Regards, Mark. The experiment with the SIM808 is ongoing. I hope to have a sample later this month. Minimal firmware changes to support it, but I worry about ‘gotchas’ that we don’t know about (we have three years experience with the SIM900 and SIM908). Fasttech is pretty much out of stock. I kept back a dozen or so v2 modules, for RMA repairs and emergencies. Most of my time is spent on v3 at the moment. Trying to get a prototype OVMS running on the FRDMK64F board under FreeRTOS and GCC (Kinetics Studio). So far so good, but it is an uphill struggle given the changes Freescale/NXP are going through at the moment. Regards, Mark.
On 16 Feb 2016, at 1:48 AM, Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de> wrote:
Mark,
Am 25.08.2015 um 07:41 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:
I checked, and the supplier has just a few hundred SIM908 modules left.
Accordingly, I just put in an order for definitely-the-last-batch of 100x v2 modules. With four more months to go in the year, I’ll take the risk.
Fasttech now is out of stock on modules... is that the end of V2?
Renault just lowered the Twizy price by 2000 €...
Regards, Michael
-- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 8335735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
<dexter.vcf>_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
Mark, thanks for the update and your work on v3, much appreciated! I've forwarded the info to the german Twizy forum and will put it on my site. Regards, Michael Am 16.02.2016 um 09:46 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:
The experiment with the SIM808 is ongoing. I hope to have a sample later this month. Minimal firmware changes to support it, but I worry about ‘gotchas’ that we don’t know about (we have three years experience with the SIM900 and SIM908).
Fasttech is pretty much out of stock. I kept back a dozen or so v2 modules, for RMA repairs and emergencies.
Most of my time is spent on v3 at the moment. Trying to get a prototype OVMS running on the FRDMK64F board under FreeRTOS and GCC (Kinetics Studio). So far so good, but it is an uphill struggle given the changes Freescale/NXP are going through at the moment.
Regards, Mark.
-- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
Nissan Leaf in belgium had also 5000€ less in januari + 5000€ incentive from flemish government still going Dit e-mailbericht is verzonden vanaf een virusvrije computer die wordt beschermd door Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> 2016-02-16 11:32 GMT+01:00 Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de>:
Mark,
thanks for the update and your work on v3, much appreciated!
I've forwarded the info to the german Twizy forum and will put it on my site.
Regards, Michael
Am 16.02.2016 um 09:46 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:
The experiment with the SIM808 is ongoing. I hope to have a sample later this month. Minimal firmware changes to support it, but I worry about ‘gotchas’ that we don’t know about (we have three years experience with the SIM900 and SIM908).
Fasttech is pretty much out of stock. I kept back a dozen or so v2 modules, for RMA repairs and emergencies.
Most of my time is spent on v3 at the moment. Trying to get a prototype OVMS running on the FRDMK64F board under FreeRTOS and GCC (Kinetics Studio). So far so good, but it is an uphill struggle given the changes Freescale/NXP are going through at the moment.
Regards, Mark.
-- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
I just stumbled across this Samsung's new dongle gives your car an LTE connection http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/21/11081476/samsung-connected-car-lte-dongle-... There are far too many unknowns but it would make it a very interesting platform if it was open enough... Nikolay On Tuesday, February 16, 2016 5:36 PM, J-C Saint-Pô <jcsaintpo@gmail.com> wrote: Nissan Leaf in belgium had also 5000€ less in januari + 5000€ incentive from flemish government still going | Dit e-mailbericht is verzonden vanaf een virusvrije computer die wordt beschermd door Avast. www.avast.com | 2016-02-16 11:32 GMT+01:00 Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de>: Mark, thanks for the update and your work on v3, much appreciated! I've forwarded the info to the german Twizy forum and will put it on my site. Regards, Michael Am 16.02.2016 um 09:46 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson: The experiment with the SIM808 is ongoing. I hope to have a sample later this month. Minimal firmware changes to support it, but I worry about ‘gotchas’ that we don’t know about (we have three years experience with the SIM900 and SIM908). Fasttech is pretty much out of stock. I kept back a dozen or so v2 modules, for RMA repairs and emergencies. Most of my time is spent on v3 at the moment. Trying to get a prototype OVMS running on the FRDMK64F board under FreeRTOS and GCC (Kinetics Studio). So far so good, but it is an uphill struggle given the changes Freescale/NXP are going through at the moment. Regards, Mark. -- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26 _______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev -- http://home.scarlet.be/jcsaintpo _______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
Looks a lot like zubie.com Knox bootloader? let's se what they're opening up, but it looks like yet another glorified ELM327... MG On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 11:28 PM, Nikolay Shishkov <nshishkov@yahoo.com> wrote:
I just stumbled across this Samsung's new dongle gives your car an LTE connection
http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/21/11081476/samsung-connected-car-lte-dongle-...
There are far too many unknowns but it would make it a very interesting platform if it was open enough...
Nikolay
On Tuesday, February 16, 2016 5:36 PM, J-C Saint-Pô <jcsaintpo@gmail.com> wrote:
Nissan Leaf in belgium had also 5000€ less in januari + 5000€ incentive from flemish government still going
Dit e-mailbericht is verzonden vanaf een virusvrije computer die wordt beschermd door Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <https://us-mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=8qij9a4j7l4f5#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
2016-02-16 11:32 GMT+01:00 Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de>:
Mark,
thanks for the update and your work on v3, much appreciated!
I've forwarded the info to the german Twizy forum and will put it on my site.
Regards, Michael
Am 16.02.2016 um 09:46 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:
The experiment with the SIM808 is ongoing. I hope to have a sample later this month. Minimal firmware changes to support it, but I worry about ‘gotchas’ that we don’t know about (we have three years experience with the SIM900 and SIM908).
Fasttech is pretty much out of stock. I kept back a dozen or so v2 modules, for RMA repairs and emergencies.
Most of my time is spent on v3 at the moment. Trying to get a prototype OVMS running on the FRDMK64F board under FreeRTOS and GCC (Kinetics Studio). So far so good, but it is an uphill struggle given the changes Freescale/NXP are going through at the moment.
Regards, Mark.
-- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
-- http://home.scarlet.be/jcsaintpo
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
participants (14)
-
Frank Demes -
J-C Saint-Pô -
Jack West -
Julien (JaXX) Banchet -
Julien Banchet
-
Jérôme Nicolle -
Lee Howard -
Mark Webb-Johnson -
Mastro Gippo -
Michael Balzer -
Michael Jochum -
Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield -
Nikolay Shishkov -
Tom Saxton