Hi everyone, we've currently two low SOC alerts in the framework, one is the configurable (feature #9) min SOC alert in vehicle_ticker(), the other is the OVMS_SOCALERT code in net_state_ticker600(). The latter is fixed to 5% and does not respect user channel & notification configuration. Is there still a use case for this or is it obsolete? Regards, Michael -- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
Hello Michael, I still use Feature 9 for 50% SoC warning. Gruß Frank
Am 18.04.2016 um 17:35 schrieb Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de>:
Hi everyone,
we've currently two low SOC alerts in the framework, one is the configurable (feature #9) min SOC alert in vehicle_ticker(), the other is the OVMS_SOCALERT code in net_state_ticker600().
The latter is fixed to 5% and does not respect user channel & notification configuration. Is there still a use case for this or is it obsolete?
Regards, Michael
-- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
<dexter.vcf> _______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
Personally, I like having the second backup warning that doesn’t depend on a setting being right. It’s a big deal if our Roadster gets down to 5% accidentally. Tom On 4/18/16, 8:35 AM, "Michael Balzer" <ovmsdev-bounces@lists.teslaclub.hk on behalf of dexter@expeedo.de> wrote:
Hi everyone,
we've currently two low SOC alerts in the framework, one is the configurable (feature #9) min SOC alert in vehicle_ticker(), the other is the OVMS_SOCALERT code in net_state_ticker600().
The latter is fixed to 5% and does not respect user channel & notification configuration. Is there still a use case for this or is it obsolete?
Regards, Michael
-- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
Tom, so the roadster doesn't cut off the battery to avoid deep discharging? Sounds like a bad BMS bug... Ok, that's a very good reason why this kind of alert should be sent out on all channels available. Thanks & regards, Michael Am 18.04.2016 um 20:56 schrieb Tom Saxton:
Personally, I like having the second backup warning that doesn’t depend on a setting being right. It’s a big deal if our Roadster gets down to 5% accidentally.
Tom
On 4/18/16, 8:35 AM, "Michael Balzer" <ovmsdev-bounces@lists.teslaclub.hk on behalf of dexter@expeedo.de> wrote:
Hi everyone,
we've currently two low SOC alerts in the framework, one is the configurable (feature #9) min SOC alert in vehicle_ticker(), the other is the OVMS_SOCALERT code in net_state_ticker600().
The latter is fixed to 5% and does not respect user channel & notification configuration. Is there still a use case for this or is it obsolete?
Regards, Michael
-- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
-- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
Yeah, the roadster owners really need it there and it deliberately overrides the normal systems and sends by SMS. I would be reluctant to remove it. Regards, Mark.
On 19 Apr 2016, at 5:23 AM, Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de> wrote:
Tom,
so the roadster doesn't cut off the battery to avoid deep discharging? Sounds like a bad BMS bug...
Ok, that's a very good reason why this kind of alert should be sent out on all channels available.
Thanks & regards, Michael
Am 18.04.2016 um 20:56 schrieb Tom Saxton:
Personally, I like having the second backup warning that doesn’t depend on a setting being right. It’s a big deal if our Roadster gets down to 5% accidentally.
Tom
On 4/18/16, 8:35 AM, "Michael Balzer" <ovmsdev-bounces@lists.teslaclub.hk on behalf of dexter@expeedo.de> wrote:
Hi everyone,
we've currently two low SOC alerts in the framework, one is the configurable (feature #9) min SOC alert in vehicle_ticker(), the other is the OVMS_SOCALERT code in net_state_ticker600().
The latter is fixed to 5% and does not respect user channel & notification configuration. Is there still a use case for this or is it obsolete?
Regards, Michael
-- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
-- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
<dexter.vcf>_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
Michael, Any battery will continue to self-discharge, even after it is disconnected from everything. The Tesla Roadster does disable driving when the battery is below the single-digit cutoff, but I would still want a warning so I can come rescue the car! For example, if it were parked somewhere for a long term and the charge reached 5% (or even 7%), then I'd want to know about that because it's not a good idea to ignore the system and leave it when the charge is that low. It's certainly a warranty-voiding situation (although surely no Roadsters are in warranty any longer). In other words, it's not a BMS bug. Chemistry dictates that all batteries will self-discharge, even if very slowly. What I'm curious about is why other electric car owners would not also want to know if their battery was low enough to trigger an automatic cut-off. Brian On Apr 18, 2016, at 2:23 PM, Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de> wrote:
Tom,
so the roadster doesn't cut off the battery to avoid deep discharging? Sounds like a bad BMS bug...
Ok, that's a very good reason why this kind of alert should be sent out on all channels available.
Thanks & regards, Michael
Am 18.04.2016 um 20:56 schrieb Tom Saxton:
Personally, I like having the second backup warning that doesn’t depend on a setting being right. It’s a big deal if our Roadster gets down to 5% accidentally.
Tom
On 4/18/16, 8:35 AM, "Michael Balzer" <ovmsdev-bounces@lists.teslaclub.hk on behalf of dexter@expeedo.de> wrote:
Hi everyone,
we've currently two low SOC alerts in the framework, one is the configurable (feature #9) min SOC alert in vehicle_ticker(), the other is the OVMS_SOCALERT code in net_state_ticker600().
The latter is fixed to 5% and does not respect user channel & notification configuration. Is there still a use case for this or is it obsolete?
Regards, Michael
Brian, I was not thinking about removing both SOC alerts, just the fixed one, and maybe then default the configurable to 5%. Self discharging rates are very low on lithium cells in general, and the BMS will normally cut off the battery long before reaching critical voltage levels, leaving several months of self discharging without damage. All third party BMS systems I checked during the last year or so support this. I understood from reading a web report on this, that the roadster BMS does not cut off the battery by a relais, the car electronics will continue operation until the battery is dead. The first gen Twizy has the same problem on the 12V aux battery, that's why I introduced the 12V alert. That's also a bug, consequences are just not as expensive. I don't need the low SOC alert at all, I use the car nearly every day (the Twizy is my only car), I always know the SOC and take care to charge it up as soon as possible, to keep cycles shallow and charge while the battery is warm. Parking at 100% SOC is also no problem on the Twizy, as the 100% mark is at ~ 4.12 V per cell, well below spec max. But the situation is of course different when you've got plenty of capacity and fast charging capability. Regards, Michael Am 20.04.2016 um 09:15 schrieb HONDA S-2000:
Michael,
Any battery will continue to self-discharge, even after it is disconnected from everything.
The Tesla Roadster does disable driving when the battery is below the single-digit cutoff, but I would still want a warning so I can come rescue the car! For example, if it were parked somewhere for a long term and the charge reached 5% (or even 7%), then I'd want to know about that because it's not a good idea to ignore the system and leave it when the charge is that low. It's certainly a warranty-voiding situation (although surely no Roadsters are in warranty any longer).
In other words, it's not a BMS bug. Chemistry dictates that all batteries will self-discharge, even if very slowly.
What I'm curious about is why other electric car owners would not also want to know if their battery was low enough to trigger an automatic cut-off.
Brian
On Apr 18, 2016, at 2:23 PM, Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de> wrote:
Tom,
so the roadster doesn't cut off the battery to avoid deep discharging? Sounds like a bad BMS bug...
Ok, that's a very good reason why this kind of alert should be sent out on all channels available.
Thanks & regards, Michael
Am 18.04.2016 um 20:56 schrieb Tom Saxton:
Personally, I like having the second backup warning that doesn’t depend on a setting being right. It’s a big deal if our Roadster gets down to 5% accidentally.
Tom
On 4/18/16, 8:35 AM, "Michael Balzer" <ovmsdev-bounces@lists.teslaclub.hk on behalf of dexter@expeedo.de> wrote:
Hi everyone,
we've currently two low SOC alerts in the framework, one is the configurable (feature #9) min SOC alert in vehicle_ticker(), the other is the OVMS_SOCALERT code in net_state_ticker600().
The latter is fixed to 5% and does not respect user channel & notification configuration. Is there still a use case for this or is it obsolete?
Regards, Michael
-- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
I think it is fine to put this as a carbits feature to opt-out. Perhaps: #define FEATURE_CB_SSOCZERO 0x80 // Set to 1 to suppress SOC 0% alert Regards, Mark. P.S. sys_features are current 8bit. Not hard to increase to 16 or 32 if necessary.
On 20 Apr 2016, at 5:20 PM, Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de> wrote:
Brian,
I was not thinking about removing both SOC alerts, just the fixed one, and maybe then default the configurable to 5%.
Self discharging rates are very low on lithium cells in general, and the BMS will normally cut off the battery long before reaching critical voltage levels, leaving several months of self discharging without damage. All third party BMS systems I checked during the last year or so support this.
I understood from reading a web report on this, that the roadster BMS does not cut off the battery by a relais, the car electronics will continue operation until the battery is dead. The first gen Twizy has the same problem on the 12V aux battery, that's why I introduced the 12V alert. That's also a bug, consequences are just not as expensive.
I don't need the low SOC alert at all, I use the car nearly every day (the Twizy is my only car), I always know the SOC and take care to charge it up as soon as possible, to keep cycles shallow and charge while the battery is warm. Parking at 100% SOC is also no problem on the Twizy, as the 100% mark is at ~ 4.12 V per cell, well below spec max.
But the situation is of course different when you've got plenty of capacity and fast charging capability.
Regards, Michael
Am 20.04.2016 um 09:15 schrieb HONDA S-2000:
Michael,
Any battery will continue to self-discharge, even after it is disconnected from everything.
The Tesla Roadster does disable driving when the battery is below the single-digit cutoff, but I would still want a warning so I can come rescue the car! For example, if it were parked somewhere for a long term and the charge reached 5% (or even 7%), then I'd want to know about that because it's not a good idea to ignore the system and leave it when the charge is that low. It's certainly a warranty-voiding situation (although surely no Roadsters are in warranty any longer).
In other words, it's not a BMS bug. Chemistry dictates that all batteries will self-discharge, even if very slowly.
What I'm curious about is why other electric car owners would not also want to know if their battery was low enough to trigger an automatic cut-off.
Brian
On Apr 18, 2016, at 2:23 PM, Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de> wrote:
Tom,
so the roadster doesn't cut off the battery to avoid deep discharging? Sounds like a bad BMS bug...
Ok, that's a very good reason why this kind of alert should be sent out on all channels available.
Thanks & regards, Michael
Am 18.04.2016 um 20:56 schrieb Tom Saxton:
Personally, I like having the second backup warning that doesn’t depend on a setting being right. It’s a big deal if our Roadster gets down to 5% accidentally.
Tom
On 4/18/16, 8:35 AM, "Michael Balzer" <ovmsdev-bounces@lists.teslaclub.hk on behalf of dexter@expeedo.de> wrote:
Hi everyone,
we've currently two low SOC alerts in the framework, one is the configurable (feature #9) min SOC alert in vehicle_ticker(), the other is the OVMS_SOCALERT code in net_state_ticker600().
The latter is fixed to 5% and does not respect user channel & notification configuration. Is there still a use case for this or is it obsolete?
Regards, Michael
-- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
I thought about using FEATURE_CB_SVALERTS for this as well -- no need to introduce a separate alert class IMO. But this really has no priority, just one user wondered why he got an SOC alert he did not configure... I think he'll be fine to accept it as a hard coded feature as well. Regards, Michael Am 06.05.2016 um 05:08 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:
I think it is fine to put this as a carbits feature to opt-out.
Perhaps:
#define FEATURE_CB_SSOCZERO 0x80 // Set to 1 to suppress SOC 0% alert
Regards, Mark.
P.S. sys_features are current 8bit. Not hard to increase to 16 or 32 if necessary.
On 20 Apr 2016, at 5:20 PM, Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de <mailto:dexter@expeedo.de>> wrote:
Brian,
I was not thinking about removing both SOC alerts, just the fixed one, and maybe then default the configurable to 5%.
Self discharging rates are very low on lithium cells in general, and the BMS will normally cut off the battery long before reaching critical voltage levels, leaving several months of self discharging without damage. All third party BMS systems I checked during the last year or so support this.
I understood from reading a web report on this, that the roadster BMS does not cut off the battery by a relais, the car electronics will continue operation until the battery is dead. The first gen Twizy has the same problem on the 12V aux battery, that's why I introduced the 12V alert. That's also a bug, consequences are just not as expensive.
I don't need the low SOC alert at all, I use the car nearly every day (the Twizy is my only car), I always know the SOC and take care to charge it up as soon as possible, to keep cycles shallow and charge while the battery is warm. Parking at 100% SOC is also no problem on the Twizy, as the 100% mark is at ~ 4.12 V per cell, well below spec max.
But the situation is of course different when you've got plenty of capacity and fast charging capability.
Regards, Michael
Am 20.04.2016 um 09:15 schrieb HONDA S-2000:
Michael,
Any battery will continue to self-discharge, even after it is disconnected from everything.
The Tesla Roadster does disable driving when the battery is below the single-digit cutoff, but I would still want a warning so I can come rescue the car! For example, if it were parked somewhere for a long term and the charge reached 5% (or even 7%), then I'd want to know about that because it's not a good idea to ignore the system and leave it when the charge is that low. It's certainly a warranty-voiding situation (although surely no Roadsters are in warranty any longer).
In other words, it's not a BMS bug. Chemistry dictates that all batteries will self-discharge, even if very slowly.
What I'm curious about is why other electric car owners would not also want to know if their battery was low enough to trigger an automatic cut-off.
Brian
On Apr 18, 2016, at 2:23 PM, Michael Balzer <dexter@expeedo.de <mailto:dexter@expeedo.de>> wrote:
Tom,
so the roadster doesn't cut off the battery to avoid deep discharging? Sounds like a bad BMS bug...
Ok, that's a very good reason why this kind of alert should be sent out on all channels available.
Thanks & regards, Michael
Am 18.04.2016 um 20:56 schrieb Tom Saxton:
Personally, I like having the second backup warning that doesn’t depend on a setting being right. It’s a big deal if our Roadster gets down to 5% accidentally.
Tom
On 4/18/16, 8:35 AM, "Michael Balzer" <ovmsdev-bounces@lists.teslaclub.hk <mailto:ovmsdev-bounces@lists.teslaclub.hk> on behalf of dexter@expeedo.de <mailto:dexter@expeedo.de>> wrote:
Hi everyone,
we've currently two low SOC alerts in the framework, one is the configurable (feature #9) min SOC alert in vehicle_ticker(), the other is the OVMS_SOCALERT code in net_state_ticker600().
The latter is fixed to 5% and does not respect user channel & notification configuration. Is there still a use case for this or is it obsolete?
Regards, Michael
-- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk <mailto:OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk> http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
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-- Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
On 05/07/2016 03:58 AM, Michael Balzer wrote:
I thought about using FEATURE_CB_SVALERTS for this as well -- no need to introduce a separate alert class IMO.
But this really has no priority, just one user wondered why he got an SOC alert he did not configure... I think he'll be fine to accept it as a hard coded feature as well.
The leaf vehicle generates an SMS on startup if the OVMS starts up while the car is switched off (because there is no SOC information on the can bus when the car is off). With my telco, SMS's are cheap but dramatically more expensive per byte than packet data, so I added // initialize SOC and SOC alert limit to avoid SMS on startup car_SOC = car_SOCalertlimit = 2; to vehicle_nissanleaf_initialise(). This makes the alert on start up go away but preserves the original functionality. I guessed 2% was a suitable threshold. For the leaf, a fixed number of gids rather than a % SOC is probably a better way to do it -- then the alarm goes off when the battery has a certain amount of energy in it. I'm working up a pull request for this change and more.
participants (6)
-
Frank Demes -
HONDA S-2000 -
Mark Webb-Johnson -
Michael Balzer -
Tom Parker -
Tom Saxton