Progress with the Renault Twizy's remote start/stop.
Hey everyone, So today I finally ventured underneath and inside the Twizy with a view to find out a little more about the Twizy charging setup. The first thing was to find out more about the charger and the type of equipment we are dealing with. First off, I removed the mat and the floor from inside the Twizy, giving me some easy view of what the inside of the Twizy looked like. Then I got the Twizy up on ramps and removed the front belly panel, which I presume is Aluminium. (Or Aluminum? ;) ) The latter comes off really easy: you just need an M14 and M10 wrench. With the bottom panel off, I could more easily see the Charger and DC/DC converter, which is actually the same unit. With some googling, it turns out that the model is based on an ELIPS 2000W charger by IES Synergy. Sadly, despite an hour of looking online, I can't find ANY manuals, schematics, or anything else to identify exactly what is what with regards to pinout. But I have identified: DC 12V out Mains In Comms port (presumably CAN bus, but I can't be sure) Temperature monitor/Battery pack monitoring cable. DC 60V out. The fact that the charger appears to have comms makes me think that perhaps there is some luck for sniffing on the CAN bus for charger information. I don't have a logger, so perhaps someone with logging could log the Twizy while charging to see if there are any info on the can bus? The mains input is also interesting: I can clearly see where the mains lead comes in from the front of the Twizy, as well as where the earth splits to chassis and the mains live and neutral passes through an APEX 280 connector on its way to the charger. If we can't figure out the comms for the charger, this seems like a logical place to connect a short loop to a double-pole NC relay. This would certainly give us the ability to control power on and off, but it would also (I think) remove the "don't power on while plugged in" safety in the Twizy. Technically then, if we used this setup and energised the NC relay to stop charging, you could then get IN the Twizy, power it up and try to drive off with it still plugged into the mains. NOT good! But there's also a mystery cable coming out of the mains input which isn't any of the three usual cables. It's smaller, and may be some form of sensor placed at the car-end of the cable (I don't think the mains cable is anything other than standard 3-core so can't travel the length of the mains cable) Any suggestions gratefully received. I think I can come up with some charger relay hardware, but It's going to be a little long-winded. Photos, for the curious, are here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/aminorjourney/8667778563/in/set-721576330735761... Nikki. P.S. Got a cron job running last night so that my Twizy OVMS logs are automatically pulled down daily and put on my Raspberry pi. ;)
Nikki,
This would certainly give us the ability to control power on and off, but it would also (I think) remove the "don't power on while plugged in" safety in the Twizy. Technically then, if we used this setup and energised the NC relay to stop charging, you could then get IN the Twizy, power it up and try to drive off with it still plugged into the mains. NOT good!
Not sure about that. If the breaker tripped, can you drive off? If I was designing it, I'd put the sensor on the charge port door open/close, not on whether power was flowing. Certainly worth a test, as that is something that definitely happens and needs to be protected against.
Photos, for the curious, are here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/aminorjourney/8667778563/in/set-721576330735761...
I looked, and wished I hadn't. That is one filthy charger. Big puddles where you live? Regards, Mark. On 21 Apr, 2013, at 11:26 PM, Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield wrote:
Hey everyone,
So today I finally ventured underneath and inside the Twizy with a view to find out a little more about the Twizy charging setup. The first thing was to find out more about the charger and the type of equipment we are dealing with.
First off, I removed the mat and the floor from inside the Twizy, giving me some easy view of what the inside of the Twizy looked like. Then I got the Twizy up on ramps and removed the front belly panel, which I presume is Aluminium. (Or Aluminum? ;) ) The latter comes off really easy: you just need an M14 and M10 wrench.
With the bottom panel off, I could more easily see the Charger and DC/DC converter, which is actually the same unit. With some googling, it turns out that the model is based on an ELIPS 2000W charger by IES Synergy.
Sadly, despite an hour of looking online, I can't find ANY manuals, schematics, or anything else to identify exactly what is what with regards to pinout.
But I have identified:
DC 12V out Mains In Comms port (presumably CAN bus, but I can't be sure) Temperature monitor/Battery pack monitoring cable. DC 60V out.
The fact that the charger appears to have comms makes me think that perhaps there is some luck for sniffing on the CAN bus for charger information. I don't have a logger, so perhaps someone with logging could log the Twizy while charging to see if there are any info on the can bus?
The mains input is also interesting: I can clearly see where the mains lead comes in from the front of the Twizy, as well as where the earth splits to chassis and the mains live and neutral passes through an APEX 280 connector on its way to the charger. If we can't figure out the comms for the charger, this seems like a logical place to connect a short loop to a double-pole NC relay. This would certainly give us the ability to control power on and off, but it would also (I think) remove the "don't power on while plugged in" safety in the Twizy. Technically then, if we used this setup and energised the NC relay to stop charging, you could then get IN the Twizy, power it up and try to drive off with it still plugged into the mains. NOT good!
But there's also a mystery cable coming out of the mains input which isn't any of the three usual cables. It's smaller, and may be some form of sensor placed at the car-end of the cable (I don't think the mains cable is anything other than standard 3-core so can't travel the length of the mains cable)
Any suggestions gratefully received. I think I can come up with some charger relay hardware, but It's going to be a little long-winded.
Photos, for the curious, are here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/aminorjourney/8667778563/in/set-721576330735761...
Nikki.
P.S. Got a cron job running last night so that my Twizy OVMS logs are automatically pulled down daily and put on my Raspberry pi. ;)
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Hi Mark, Sent from my iPhone On 22 Apr 2013, at 04:47, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
Nikki,
This would certainly give us the ability to control power on and off, but it would also (I think) remove the "don't power on while plugged in" safety in the Twizy. Technically then, if we used this setup and energised the NC relay to stop charging, you could then get IN the Twizy, power it up and try to drive off with it still plugged into the mains. NOT good!
Not sure about that. If the breaker tripped, can you drive off? If I was designing it, I'd put the sensor on the charge port door open/close, not on whether power was flowing.
Certainly worth a test, as that is something that definitely happens and needs to be protected against.
Yes. At least I think so! (I will test it today!) The power door is plastic and has no switch of any kind on it, no switch there. I suspect the mystery cable wrapped around the mains inlet has something to do with how the Twizy knows its state however. For example, the car is plugged in and charging has finished. But it still reports being plugged in. This either means the charger is reporting the fact it is plugged in, or that extra wire is.
Photos, for the curious, are here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/aminorjourney/8667778563/in/set-721576330735761...
I looked, and wished I hadn't. That is one filthy charger. Big puddles where you live?
No! At least, not compared to the deluge which was autumn and winter! Worse still, the twizy has been here since mid march and doesn't even have 1,000 miles on it yet! Nikki
Regards, Mark.
On 21 Apr, 2013, at 11:26 PM, Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield wrote:
Hey everyone,
So today I finally ventured underneath and inside the Twizy with a view to find out a little more about the Twizy charging setup. The first thing was to find out more about the charger and the type of equipment we are dealing with.
First off, I removed the mat and the floor from inside the Twizy, giving me some easy view of what the inside of the Twizy looked like. Then I got the Twizy up on ramps and removed the front belly panel, which I presume is Aluminium. (Or Aluminum? ;) ) The latter comes off really easy: you just need an M14 and M10 wrench.
With the bottom panel off, I could more easily see the Charger and DC/DC converter, which is actually the same unit. With some googling, it turns out that the model is based on an ELIPS 2000W charger by IES Synergy.
Sadly, despite an hour of looking online, I can't find ANY manuals, schematics, or anything else to identify exactly what is what with regards to pinout.
But I have identified:
DC 12V out Mains In Comms port (presumably CAN bus, but I can't be sure) Temperature monitor/Battery pack monitoring cable. DC 60V out.
The fact that the charger appears to have comms makes me think that perhaps there is some luck for sniffing on the CAN bus for charger information. I don't have a logger, so perhaps someone with logging could log the Twizy while charging to see if there are any info on the can bus?
The mains input is also interesting: I can clearly see where the mains lead comes in from the front of the Twizy, as well as where the earth splits to chassis and the mains live and neutral passes through an APEX 280 connector on its way to the charger. If we can't figure out the comms for the charger, this seems like a logical place to connect a short loop to a double-pole NC relay. This would certainly give us the ability to control power on and off, but it would also (I think) remove the "don't power on while plugged in" safety in the Twizy. Technically then, if we used this setup and energised the NC relay to stop charging, you could then get IN the Twizy, power it up and try to drive off with it still plugged into the mains. NOT good!
But there's also a mystery cable coming out of the mains input which isn't any of the three usual cables. It's smaller, and may be some form of sensor placed at the car-end of the cable (I don't think the mains cable is anything other than standard 3-core so can't travel the length of the mains cable)
Any suggestions gratefully received. I think I can come up with some charger relay hardware, but It's going to be a little long-winded.
Photos, for the curious, are here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/aminorjourney/8667778563/in/set-721576330735761...
Nikki.
P.S. Got a cron job running last night so that my Twizy OVMS logs are automatically pulled down daily and put on my Raspberry pi. ;)
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Just checked: with the breaker tripped, it's possible to power up the Twizy and drive it, even if the cord is still plugged in. I think I have a solution however. What if we added an action to OVMS when ignition was turned On? My idea is this: when OVMS detects the key has been turned, it simply unpowers the NC relay, making the Twizy see the mains power coming into it again and thus re-enabling the no-drive when charging safety switch? Similarly, OVMS could only energise the NC relay if the car is switched off first? Nikki. On 22 Apr 2013, at 06:01, Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield <nikki@littlecollie.com> wrote:
Hi Mark,
Sent from my iPhone
On 22 Apr 2013, at 04:47, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
Nikki,
This would certainly give us the ability to control power on and off, but it would also (I think) remove the "don't power on while plugged in" safety in the Twizy. Technically then, if we used this setup and energised the NC relay to stop charging, you could then get IN the Twizy, power it up and try to drive off with it still plugged into the mains. NOT good!
Not sure about that. If the breaker tripped, can you drive off? If I was designing it, I'd put the sensor on the charge port door open/close, not on whether power was flowing.
Certainly worth a test, as that is something that definitely happens and needs to be protected against.
Yes. At least I think so! (I will test it today!)
The power door is plastic and has no switch of any kind on it, no switch there.
I suspect the mystery cable wrapped around the mains inlet has something to do with how the Twizy knows its state however.
For example, the car is plugged in and charging has finished. But it still reports being plugged in. This either means the charger is reporting the fact it is plugged in, or that extra wire is.
Photos, for the curious, are here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/aminorjourney/8667778563/in/set-721576330735761...
I looked, and wished I hadn't. That is one filthy charger. Big puddles where you live?
No! At least, not compared to the deluge which was autumn and winter! Worse still, the twizy has been here since mid march and doesn't even have 1,000 miles on it yet!
Nikki
Regards, Mark.
On 21 Apr, 2013, at 11:26 PM, Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield wrote:
Hey everyone,
So today I finally ventured underneath and inside the Twizy with a view to find out a little more about the Twizy charging setup. The first thing was to find out more about the charger and the type of equipment we are dealing with.
First off, I removed the mat and the floor from inside the Twizy, giving me some easy view of what the inside of the Twizy looked like. Then I got the Twizy up on ramps and removed the front belly panel, which I presume is Aluminium. (Or Aluminum? ;) ) The latter comes off really easy: you just need an M14 and M10 wrench.
With the bottom panel off, I could more easily see the Charger and DC/DC converter, which is actually the same unit. With some googling, it turns out that the model is based on an ELIPS 2000W charger by IES Synergy.
Sadly, despite an hour of looking online, I can't find ANY manuals, schematics, or anything else to identify exactly what is what with regards to pinout.
But I have identified:
DC 12V out Mains In Comms port (presumably CAN bus, but I can't be sure) Temperature monitor/Battery pack monitoring cable. DC 60V out.
The fact that the charger appears to have comms makes me think that perhaps there is some luck for sniffing on the CAN bus for charger information. I don't have a logger, so perhaps someone with logging could log the Twizy while charging to see if there are any info on the can bus?
The mains input is also interesting: I can clearly see where the mains lead comes in from the front of the Twizy, as well as where the earth splits to chassis and the mains live and neutral passes through an APEX 280 connector on its way to the charger. If we can't figure out the comms for the charger, this seems like a logical place to connect a short loop to a double-pole NC relay. This would certainly give us the ability to control power on and off, but it would also (I think) remove the "don't power on while plugged in" safety in the Twizy. Technically then, if we used this setup and energised the NC relay to stop charging, you could then get IN the Twizy, power it up and try to drive off with it still plugged into the mains. NOT good!
But there's also a mystery cable coming out of the mains input which isn't any of the three usual cables. It's smaller, and may be some form of sensor placed at the car-end of the cable (I don't think the mains cable is anything other than standard 3-core so can't travel the length of the mains cable)
Any suggestions gratefully received. I think I can come up with some charger relay hardware, but It's going to be a little long-winded.
Photos, for the curious, are here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/aminorjourney/8667778563/in/set-721576330735761...
Nikki.
P.S. Got a cron job running last night so that my Twizy OVMS logs are automatically pulled down daily and put on my Raspberry pi. ;)
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I suspect the mystery cable wrapped around the mains inlet has something to do with how the Twizy knows its state however. Just checked: with the breaker tripped, it's possible to power up the Twizy and drive it, even if the cord is still plugged in.
Current clamp, most likely.
What if we added an action to OVMS when ignition was turned On? My idea is this: when OVMS detects the key has been turned, it simply unpowers the NC relay, making the Twizy see the mains power coming into it again and thus re-enabling the no-drive when charging safety switch?
Yep, that should work. It should also already be there (see if the 'parked' indicator works or not) - Michael can confirm. But, still no luck if breaker trips :-( Regards, Mark. On 22 Apr, 2013, at 1:44 PM, Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield wrote:
Just checked: with the breaker tripped, it's possible to power up the Twizy and drive it, even if the cord is still plugged in.
I think I have a solution however.
What if we added an action to OVMS when ignition was turned On? My idea is this: when OVMS detects the key has been turned, it simply unpowers the NC relay, making the Twizy see the mains power coming into it again and thus re-enabling the no-drive when charging safety switch?
Similarly, OVMS could only energise the NC relay if the car is switched off first?
Nikki.
On 22 Apr 2013, at 06:01, Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield <nikki@littlecollie.com> wrote:
Hi Mark,
Sent from my iPhone
On 22 Apr 2013, at 04:47, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
Nikki,
This would certainly give us the ability to control power on and off, but it would also (I think) remove the "don't power on while plugged in" safety in the Twizy. Technically then, if we used this setup and energised the NC relay to stop charging, you could then get IN the Twizy, power it up and try to drive off with it still plugged into the mains. NOT good!
Not sure about that. If the breaker tripped, can you drive off? If I was designing it, I'd put the sensor on the charge port door open/close, not on whether power was flowing.
Certainly worth a test, as that is something that definitely happens and needs to be protected against.
Yes. At least I think so! (I will test it today!)
The power door is plastic and has no switch of any kind on it, no switch there.
I suspect the mystery cable wrapped around the mains inlet has something to do with how the Twizy knows its state however.
For example, the car is plugged in and charging has finished. But it still reports being plugged in. This either means the charger is reporting the fact it is plugged in, or that extra wire is.
Photos, for the curious, are here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/aminorjourney/8667778563/in/set-721576330735761...
I looked, and wished I hadn't. That is one filthy charger. Big puddles where you live?
No! At least, not compared to the deluge which was autumn and winter! Worse still, the twizy has been here since mid march and doesn't even have 1,000 miles on it yet!
Nikki
Regards, Mark.
On 21 Apr, 2013, at 11:26 PM, Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield wrote:
Hey everyone,
So today I finally ventured underneath and inside the Twizy with a view to find out a little more about the Twizy charging setup. The first thing was to find out more about the charger and the type of equipment we are dealing with.
First off, I removed the mat and the floor from inside the Twizy, giving me some easy view of what the inside of the Twizy looked like. Then I got the Twizy up on ramps and removed the front belly panel, which I presume is Aluminium. (Or Aluminum? ;) ) The latter comes off really easy: you just need an M14 and M10 wrench.
With the bottom panel off, I could more easily see the Charger and DC/DC converter, which is actually the same unit. With some googling, it turns out that the model is based on an ELIPS 2000W charger by IES Synergy.
Sadly, despite an hour of looking online, I can't find ANY manuals, schematics, or anything else to identify exactly what is what with regards to pinout.
But I have identified:
DC 12V out Mains In Comms port (presumably CAN bus, but I can't be sure) Temperature monitor/Battery pack monitoring cable. DC 60V out.
The fact that the charger appears to have comms makes me think that perhaps there is some luck for sniffing on the CAN bus for charger information. I don't have a logger, so perhaps someone with logging could log the Twizy while charging to see if there are any info on the can bus?
The mains input is also interesting: I can clearly see where the mains lead comes in from the front of the Twizy, as well as where the earth splits to chassis and the mains live and neutral passes through an APEX 280 connector on its way to the charger. If we can't figure out the comms for the charger, this seems like a logical place to connect a short loop to a double-pole NC relay. This would certainly give us the ability to control power on and off, but it would also (I think) remove the "don't power on while plugged in" safety in the Twizy. Technically then, if we used this setup and energised the NC relay to stop charging, you could then get IN the Twizy, power it up and try to drive off with it still plugged into the mains. NOT good!
But there's also a mystery cable coming out of the mains input which isn't any of the three usual cables. It's smaller, and may be some form of sensor placed at the car-end of the cable (I don't think the mains cable is anything other than standard 3-core so can't travel the length of the mains cable)
Any suggestions gratefully received. I think I can come up with some charger relay hardware, but It's going to be a little long-winded.
Photos, for the curious, are here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/aminorjourney/8667778563/in/set-721576330735761...
Nikki.
P.S. Got a cron job running last night so that my Twizy OVMS logs are automatically pulled down daily and put on my Raspberry pi. ;)
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Yes, that's true. Poor design on Renault's part! On 22 Apr 2013, at 07:12, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
I suspect the mystery cable wrapped around the mains inlet has something to do with how the Twizy knows its state however. Just checked: with the breaker tripped, it's possible to power up the Twizy and drive it, even if the cord is still plugged in.
Current clamp, most likely.
What if we added an action to OVMS when ignition was turned On? My idea is this: when OVMS detects the key has been turned, it simply unpowers the NC relay, making the Twizy see the mains power coming into it again and thus re-enabling the no-drive when charging safety switch?
Yep, that should work. It should also already be there (see if the 'parked' indicator works or not) - Michael can confirm.
But, still no luck if breaker trips :-(
Regards, Mark.
On 22 Apr, 2013, at 1:44 PM, Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield wrote:
Just checked: with the breaker tripped, it's possible to power up the Twizy and drive it, even if the cord is still plugged in.
I think I have a solution however.
What if we added an action to OVMS when ignition was turned On? My idea is this: when OVMS detects the key has been turned, it simply unpowers the NC relay, making the Twizy see the mains power coming into it again and thus re-enabling the no-drive when charging safety switch?
Similarly, OVMS could only energise the NC relay if the car is switched off first?
Nikki.
On 22 Apr 2013, at 06:01, Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield <nikki@littlecollie.com> wrote:
Hi Mark,
Sent from my iPhone
On 22 Apr 2013, at 04:47, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
Nikki,
This would certainly give us the ability to control power on and off, but it would also (I think) remove the "don't power on while plugged in" safety in the Twizy. Technically then, if we used this setup and energised the NC relay to stop charging, you could then get IN the Twizy, power it up and try to drive off with it still plugged into the mains. NOT good!
Not sure about that. If the breaker tripped, can you drive off? If I was designing it, I'd put the sensor on the charge port door open/close, not on whether power was flowing.
Certainly worth a test, as that is something that definitely happens and needs to be protected against.
Yes. At least I think so! (I will test it today!)
The power door is plastic and has no switch of any kind on it, no switch there.
I suspect the mystery cable wrapped around the mains inlet has something to do with how the Twizy knows its state however.
For example, the car is plugged in and charging has finished. But it still reports being plugged in. This either means the charger is reporting the fact it is plugged in, or that extra wire is.
Photos, for the curious, are here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/aminorjourney/8667778563/in/set-721576330735761...
I looked, and wished I hadn't. That is one filthy charger. Big puddles where you live?
No! At least, not compared to the deluge which was autumn and winter! Worse still, the twizy has been here since mid march and doesn't even have 1,000 miles on it yet!
Nikki
Regards, Mark.
On 21 Apr, 2013, at 11:26 PM, Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield wrote:
Hey everyone,
So today I finally ventured underneath and inside the Twizy with a view to find out a little more about the Twizy charging setup. The first thing was to find out more about the charger and the type of equipment we are dealing with.
First off, I removed the mat and the floor from inside the Twizy, giving me some easy view of what the inside of the Twizy looked like. Then I got the Twizy up on ramps and removed the front belly panel, which I presume is Aluminium. (Or Aluminum? ;) ) The latter comes off really easy: you just need an M14 and M10 wrench.
With the bottom panel off, I could more easily see the Charger and DC/DC converter, which is actually the same unit. With some googling, it turns out that the model is based on an ELIPS 2000W charger by IES Synergy.
Sadly, despite an hour of looking online, I can't find ANY manuals, schematics, or anything else to identify exactly what is what with regards to pinout.
But I have identified:
DC 12V out Mains In Comms port (presumably CAN bus, but I can't be sure) Temperature monitor/Battery pack monitoring cable. DC 60V out.
The fact that the charger appears to have comms makes me think that perhaps there is some luck for sniffing on the CAN bus for charger information. I don't have a logger, so perhaps someone with logging could log the Twizy while charging to see if there are any info on the can bus?
The mains input is also interesting: I can clearly see where the mains lead comes in from the front of the Twizy, as well as where the earth splits to chassis and the mains live and neutral passes through an APEX 280 connector on its way to the charger. If we can't figure out the comms for the charger, this seems like a logical place to connect a short loop to a double-pole NC relay. This would certainly give us the ability to control power on and off, but it would also (I think) remove the "don't power on while plugged in" safety in the Twizy. Technically then, if we used this setup and energised the NC relay to stop charging, you could then get IN the Twizy, power it up and try to drive off with it still plugged into the mains. NOT good!
But there's also a mystery cable coming out of the mains input which isn't any of the three usual cables. It's smaller, and may be some form of sensor placed at the car-end of the cable (I don't think the mains cable is anything other than standard 3-core so can't travel the length of the mains cable)
Any suggestions gratefully received. I think I can come up with some charger relay hardware, but It's going to be a little long-winded.
Photos, for the curious, are here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/aminorjourney/8667778563/in/set-721576330735761...
Nikki.
P.S. Got a cron job running last night so that my Twizy OVMS logs are automatically pulled down daily and put on my Raspberry pi. ;)
_______________________________________________ OvmsDev mailing list OvmsDev@lists.teslaclub.hk http://lists.teslaclub.hk/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev
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I've been thinking: I suspect the best way we can move forward on this issue is to try and source and APEX 280 power connector OR to try and sniff out the CAN bus messages involving the charger. I'll do some digging. ;) Nikki. On 22 Apr 2013, at 07:12, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
I suspect the mystery cable wrapped around the mains inlet has something to do with how the Twizy knows its state however. Just checked: with the breaker tripped, it's possible to power up the Twizy and drive it, even if the cord is still plugged in.
Current clamp, most likely.
What if we added an action to OVMS when ignition was turned On? My idea is this: when OVMS detects the key has been turned, it simply unpowers the NC relay, making the Twizy see the mains power coming into it again and thus re-enabling the no-drive when charging safety switch?
Yep, that should work. It should also already be there (see if the 'parked' indicator works or not) - Michael can confirm.
But, still no luck if breaker trips :-(
Regards, Mark.
On 22 Apr, 2013, at 1:44 PM, Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield wrote:
Just checked: with the breaker tripped, it's possible to power up the Twizy and drive it, even if the cord is still plugged in.
I think I have a solution however.
What if we added an action to OVMS when ignition was turned On? My idea is this: when OVMS detects the key has been turned, it simply unpowers the NC relay, making the Twizy see the mains power coming into it again and thus re-enabling the no-drive when charging safety switch?
Similarly, OVMS could only energise the NC relay if the car is switched off first?
Nikki.
On 22 Apr 2013, at 06:01, Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield <nikki@littlecollie.com> wrote:
Hi Mark,
Sent from my iPhone
On 22 Apr 2013, at 04:47, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark@webb-johnson.net> wrote:
Nikki,
This would certainly give us the ability to control power on and off, but it would also (I think) remove the "don't power on while plugged in" safety in the Twizy. Technically then, if we used this setup and energised the NC relay to stop charging, you could then get IN the Twizy, power it up and try to drive off with it still plugged into the mains. NOT good!
Not sure about that. If the breaker tripped, can you drive off? If I was designing it, I'd put the sensor on the charge port door open/close, not on whether power was flowing.
Certainly worth a test, as that is something that definitely happens and needs to be protected against.
Yes. At least I think so! (I will test it today!)
The power door is plastic and has no switch of any kind on it, no switch there.
I suspect the mystery cable wrapped around the mains inlet has something to do with how the Twizy knows its state however.
For example, the car is plugged in and charging has finished. But it still reports being plugged in. This either means the charger is reporting the fact it is plugged in, or that extra wire is.
Photos, for the curious, are here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/aminorjourney/8667778563/in/set-721576330735761...
I looked, and wished I hadn't. That is one filthy charger. Big puddles where you live?
No! At least, not compared to the deluge which was autumn and winter! Worse still, the twizy has been here since mid march and doesn't even have 1,000 miles on it yet!
Nikki
Regards, Mark.
On 21 Apr, 2013, at 11:26 PM, Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield wrote:
Hey everyone,
So today I finally ventured underneath and inside the Twizy with a view to find out a little more about the Twizy charging setup. The first thing was to find out more about the charger and the type of equipment we are dealing with.
First off, I removed the mat and the floor from inside the Twizy, giving me some easy view of what the inside of the Twizy looked like. Then I got the Twizy up on ramps and removed the front belly panel, which I presume is Aluminium. (Or Aluminum? ;) ) The latter comes off really easy: you just need an M14 and M10 wrench.
With the bottom panel off, I could more easily see the Charger and DC/DC converter, which is actually the same unit. With some googling, it turns out that the model is based on an ELIPS 2000W charger by IES Synergy.
Sadly, despite an hour of looking online, I can't find ANY manuals, schematics, or anything else to identify exactly what is what with regards to pinout.
But I have identified:
DC 12V out Mains In Comms port (presumably CAN bus, but I can't be sure) Temperature monitor/Battery pack monitoring cable. DC 60V out.
The fact that the charger appears to have comms makes me think that perhaps there is some luck for sniffing on the CAN bus for charger information. I don't have a logger, so perhaps someone with logging could log the Twizy while charging to see if there are any info on the can bus?
The mains input is also interesting: I can clearly see where the mains lead comes in from the front of the Twizy, as well as where the earth splits to chassis and the mains live and neutral passes through an APEX 280 connector on its way to the charger. If we can't figure out the comms for the charger, this seems like a logical place to connect a short loop to a double-pole NC relay. This would certainly give us the ability to control power on and off, but it would also (I think) remove the "don't power on while plugged in" safety in the Twizy. Technically then, if we used this setup and energised the NC relay to stop charging, you could then get IN the Twizy, power it up and try to drive off with it still plugged into the mains. NOT good!
But there's also a mystery cable coming out of the mains input which isn't any of the three usual cables. It's smaller, and may be some form of sensor placed at the car-end of the cable (I don't think the mains cable is anything other than standard 3-core so can't travel the length of the mains cable)
Any suggestions gratefully received. I think I can come up with some charger relay hardware, but It's going to be a little long-winded.
Photos, for the curious, are here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/aminorjourney/8667778563/in/set-721576330735761...
Nikki.
P.S. Got a cron job running last night so that my Twizy OVMS logs are automatically pulled down daily and put on my Raspberry pi. ;)
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participants (2)
-
Mark Webb-Johnson -
Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield