[Ovmsdev] "Vehicle is idling": A new "Feature"?
Mark Webb-Johnson
mark at webb-johnson.net
Mon Feb 10 08:37:36 HKT 2020
Greg,
The problem is that your and my understanding of what ‘awake’ means is not the same as the OVMS definition of v.e.awake. Looking at https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/userguide/metrics.html <https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/userguide/metrics.html> we can see:
v.e.awake
yes = Vehicle/bus awake (switched on)
ie; my state #3 (Ignition on to the first stop)
v.e.on
yes = “Ignition” state (drivable)
ie; my state #4 (Ignition on all the way)
and the new v.e.aux12v
yes = Auxiliary 12v system is on
While we can say that ‘awake’ means the coolant pump is running, and a side effect is the 12v auxiliary power in the cabin is on; in reality it is the other way round - this thing we think of as ‘awake’ is really the state of the auxiliary 12v power which the coolant pump runs off. Note that neither ‘awake’ not ‘aux12v’ metrics are shown on the Apps - they are purely an internal representation.
The only thing that matters to the App (ie; user) is the temperatures. Those sensors seem powered by the same auxiliary 12v system, so when that is off those go stale. That seems currently to be implemented correctly (in latest edge firmware). If the car is sleeping (aux12v is off), the temperature sensors are not updated, go stale, and appear as gray in the App. If you tap on ‘wakeup’ in the App, the aux12v comes on, temperature sensors get power, and the App shows the temperatures in real time (white, not gray) immediately.
The choices we had were:
Change the definition of ‘v.e.awake’ (which has been there for years) to mean aux12v power, introduce a new sensor for state #3 (to mean ignition on, but car not started), and then change all the other vehicle modules + notification code to conform to this.
or
Add a new metric ‘v.e.aux12v’ to properly track the 12v auxiliary power.
We chose #2 as it just seems easier and better tracks what is actually happening in the car. The only issue in the Tesla Roadster is we don’t know how to tell the difference between states #3 and #4, so we just set v.e.awake and v.e.on at the same time now (to track the ignition on). Perhaps we can go looking to try to find that on the CAN bus, but I don’t think of it as that important (also difficult for me because I don’t have the car any more). If somebody can get three CRTD can bus dumps from a roadster for a) with the ignition off, b) with ignition to the first stop, and c) with ignition fully on, I can look at it to see what I can find.
Bottom line is that the states for Roadster are now:
Car asleep. v.e.awake=off, v.e.on=off, v.e.aux12v=off.
The charge port or door handle is opened (or vehicle woken up from the app). v.e.awake=off, v.e.on=off, v.e.aux12v=on.
The ignition is turned on. v.e.awake=on, v.e.on=on, v.e.aux12v=on.
I think that will also work for the Tesla Model S, X and 3 (which have the same power states). Note that modern Tesla cars don’t have ignition switches, and don’t have any difference between states #3 and #4.
Regards, Mark.
> On 10 Feb 2020, at 2:08 AM, Greg D. <gregd2350 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Mark, Michael,
>
> Mmmm, not sure this is right. The states you outline are exactly what I would expect, and what I am seeing with my car: Awake corresponds to the car running the little pump, lighting the charge ring if the door is open, etc. The On state properly corresponds to the turning of the key. All that is fine as is. That it also powers the 12v Accessory port on the dash is a bit odd, but I think we can ignore that for these purposes. It's just one of this magical little car's quirks.
>
> So, all was fine. I can't test the Idling message without going for a long drive, but the triggering of vehicle.on events does work (follows the key), so I guess that's progress. Cosmetically, we have addressed the issues, but the collateral damage? I did the update, and the change sort of breaks the app Wake up the car. Waking it doesn't change the state of Awake, though the car does wake up (in the old definition) as before. I don't think we're really at root cause, so the fixes are unraveling other things.
>
> What I was thinking explains both of my issues - the Idling message, and the triggering of vehicle.on events - is that both of those appear to be qualified by Awake instead of On. That, I think, is the root cause. That the vehicle.on event follows the key (as it should) is because we've changed the definition on Awake, not the use of On as the trigger for vehicle.on. I am using vehicle.on, not vehicle.awake, for a reason. Vehicle.awake should follow the little pump and its friends, not the key. Vehicle.on and vehicle.off should follow the key. vehicle.off is (and has been) fine. Vehicle.on isn't tied to On as it should.
>
> Having the Aux12v metric is fine by itself, I suppose, and may be useful for other cars that have their own quirks. But the common definition of Awake for the Roadster was properly implemented before this change. That the Roadster powers the Aux12v outlet when the car is Awake instead of following the key to On isn't relevant to the definition of Awake.
>
> Greg
>
>
> Mark Webb-Johnson wrote:
>> OK. This is in 3.2.010-6-gac7c26d.
>>
>> @Greg can you try this one (OTA) and let me know if you see any more of these alerts.
>>
>> Regards, Mark.
>>
>>> On 9 Feb 2020, at 5:50 PM, Michael Balzer <dexter at expeedo.de <mailto:dexter at expeedo.de>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, sounds good to me.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 09.02.20 um 09:53 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:
>>>> The Tesla Roadster transmits it’s sleep/awake status:
>>>>
>>>> ID 0x100 B1=0x96
>>>> B4=doors3
>>>> bit1 = awake/asleep (awake=1 / asleep=0)
>>>>
>>>> In the v2 code, we simply sent this as doors3 value (in the ‘D’ protocol message).
>>>>
>>>> The v3 code has this as:
>>>>
>>>> case 0x96: // Doors / Charging yes/no
>>>> {
>>>> m_awake = d[3] & 0x01;
>>>>
>>>> Which was wrong (bit #0). I fixed it in recent commit 39cdb7e19e5a3b88ab7217a9adb0cb6008278ab1 to 'm_awake = d[3] & 0x02’ (bit #1), and that now correctly tracks the vehicle state. This was to address bug 'Tesla Roadster: Vehicle AWAKE metric not correct #328’.
>>>>
>>>> Over the years, it seems that the meaning of doors3 has changed. It originally just specified bit #1, but now the protocol specifies:
>>>>
>>>> Door state #3
>>>>
>>>> bit0 = Car awake (turned on=1 / off=0)
>>>> bit1 = Cooling pump (on=1/off=0)
>>>> bit6 = 1=Logged into motor controller
>>>> bit7 = 1=Motor controller in configuration mode
>>>>
>>>> The Tesla Roadster code in v2 never adhered to that, and just set doors3 to whatever it saw on the bus. However, I’ve never seen values other than 0x00 or 0x02 on that byte. Certainly, no known value for bit#0 (car turned on). I guess this is where the confusion from the conversion v2 -> v3 came from (the protocol document saying ‘awake’ in bit#0, vs cooling pump in bit #1). Tesla Roadster users know the cooling pump as ‘awake/sleep’.
>>>>
>>>> So, where are we now? A general car can be defined as at least these states:
>>>>
>>>> Ignition off, asleep, consuming as little power as possible
>>>> Ignition off, awake, with some systems using power
>>>> Ignition on to the first stop (just some systems on, but car not started)
>>>> Ignition on all the way (engine running or starting)
>>>> Ignition past on all the way (turning the engine starter motor)
>>>>
>>>> We can ignore #5 for electric cars.
>>>>
>>>> In v3, we have these metrics:
>>>>
>>>> v.e.awake
>>>> v.e.on
>>>> v.e.charging12v
>>>>
>>>> I assumed that v.e.awake corresponds to state #2, and v.e.on to states #3 and/or #4.
>>>>
>>>> The v.e.charging12v doesn’t really work for the Roadster. The cooling pump is not related to the little 12v battery charging system.
>>>>
>>>> I guess I could add a standard metric ‘v.e.aux12v’ to indicate the auxiliary 12v system is on (and then set v.e.awake and v.e.ok corresponding to the ignition switch). Is that acceptable?
>>>>
>>>> Regards, Mark.
>>>>
>>>>> On 8 Feb 2020, at 5:46 AM, Greg D. <gregd2350 at gmail.com <mailto:gregd2350 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Michael, Mark,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok, very interesting that this is an old feature. I only just started seeing the message very recently. What changed?
>>>>>
>>>>> As to "Awake" vs "On" vs "Ignited", they are definitely different. I am seeing the correct state reflected in v.e.awake and v.e.on. Simply opening the car door when the car is asleep will wake it up (v.e.awake turns to yes), and inserting the key and moving it to the "Accessory" position (first notch) moves the state to "On" (both metrics are "yes"). Note that the car is not On (drivable) until the key is moved one notch farther; I'm presuming that's "Ignited" in your terminology.
>>>>>
>>>>> But something has changed. I have an event script tied to vehicle.on which activates ext12v power to enable a HUD or similar (*). Simply awakening the car triggers the script, a behavior I believe is new, and incorrect. The script should get activated only when the key is moved to Accessory (your "On" state). When the car goes directly back to sleep after a few minutes, the vehicle.off script correctly does not trigger. Turning the car to Accessory, then Off (removing the key), does correctly trigger the vehicle.off script, even though the car is still Awake at the time.
>>>>>
>>>>> So what I think is happening with the "Vehicle is idling" message is that it's a side effect of some logic change to what "on" is, that it's being sensed and triggered by "Awake" instead of "On". The car is definitely Awake during charging, but it is not On. And not being On, the Idle message shouldn't be triggered, nor should my HUD be turned on.
>>>>>
>>>>> What changed?
>>>>>
>>>>> Greg
>>>>>
>>>>> (*) Actually, the script does a bit more, to work around the CAN3 bus hangs:
>>>>>
>>>>> power ext12v off
>>>>> obdii ecu stop
>>>>> obdii ecu start can3
>>>>> power ext12v on
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael Balzer wrote:
>>>>>> Greg, Mark,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> that's actually a very old feature originating from V2. It's meant to alert about a car left turned on, which is both a potential security issue (key is plugged) and a potential fire/explosion threat on vehicles that may overcharge the 12V battery from the DC/DC converter. It's also main battery drainage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This also needs to trigger during charging, but of course not if the vehicle wakes itself for some internal checks or OTA updates / whatever.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This was/is using the definition of "awake" as "turned on", and "on" as "ignited". It seems all cars except the roadster follow this scheme now, so maybe we should separate the "maintenance awake" state?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 07.02.20 um 08:43 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:
>>>>>>> Greg,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That would be the system thinking the vehicle is asleep, but speed > 0.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I did fix the roadster awake/sleep flag (which was not being set correctly before), so most likely this is something new.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The logic is in VehicleTicker1() in vehicle.cpp. It is:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> // Idle alert:
>>>>>>> if (!StdMetrics.ms_v_env_awake->AsBool() || StdMetrics.ms_v_pos_speed->AsFloat() > 0)
>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>> m_idle_ticker = 15 * 60; // first alert after 15 minutes
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>> else if (m_idle_ticker > 0 && --m_idle_ticker == 0)
>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>> NotifyVehicleIdling();
>>>>>>> m_idle_ticker = 60 * 60; // successive alerts every 60 minutes
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, that resets the fifteen minute timer whenever the vehicle is either asleep OR speed>0 (driving). Otherwise the timer counts down, and after 15 minutes the alert is raised (and every 60 minutes thereafter until either the vehicle goes to sleep or speed>0).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For roadster, that work work. The car can ‘awake’ itself for charging,etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am not really sure why we are using ms_v_env_awake in the first place here. Why do we care if the vehicle is awake or not? Surely we should be looking at ms_v_env_on (ie; vehicle switched on)? But for JDEMO users that would cause a problem (as for they have to leave the vehicle ignition on while charging).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe simplest to disable this alert for Roadster, unless someone else has any better ideas. In any case, we need to think about using ms_v_env_awake vs ms_v_env_on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards, Mark.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 7 Feb 2020, at 2:22 AM, Greg D. <gregd2350 at gmail.com <mailto:gregd2350 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm starting to get an alert "Vehicle is idling / stopped turned on"
>>>>>>>> when my Roadster is charging. Seems to occur every hour.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is this something new with OVMSv3, or did something change / break on my
>>>>>>>> car?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal
>>>>>> Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>> Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
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