<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Greg,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The problem is that your and my understanding of what ‘awake’ means is not the same as the OVMS definition of v.e.awake. Looking at <a href="https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/userguide/metrics.html" class="">https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/userguide/metrics.html</a> we can see:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><ul class="MailOutline"><li class="">v.e.awake<br class="">yes = Vehicle/bus awake (switched on)<br class="">ie; my state #3 (Ignition on to the first stop)<br class=""><br class=""></li><li class="">v.e.on<br class="">yes = “Ignition” state (drivable)<br class="">ie; my state #4 (Ignition on all the way)<br class=""><br class=""></li><li class="">and the new v.e.aux12v<br class="">yes = Auxiliary 12v system is on</li></ul></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">While we can say that ‘awake’ means the coolant pump is running, and a side effect is the 12v auxiliary power in the cabin is on; in reality it is the other way round - this thing we think of as ‘awake’ is really the state of the auxiliary 12v power which the coolant pump runs off. Note that neither ‘awake’ not ‘aux12v’ metrics are shown on the Apps - they are purely an internal representation.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The only thing that matters to the App (ie; user) is the temperatures. Those sensors seem powered by the same auxiliary 12v system, so when that is off those go stale. That seems currently to be implemented correctly (in latest edge firmware). If the car is sleeping (aux12v is off), the temperature sensors are not updated, go stale, and appear as gray in the App. If you tap on ‘wakeup’ in the App, the aux12v comes on, temperature sensors get power, and the App shows the temperatures in real time (white, not gray) immediately.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The choices we had were:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><ol class="MailOutline"><li class="">Change the definition of ‘v.e.awake’ (which has been there for years) to mean aux12v power, introduce a new sensor for state #3 (to mean ignition on, but car not started), and then change all the other vehicle modules + notification code to conform to this.<br class=""><br class="">or<br class=""><br class=""></li><li class="">Add a new metric ‘v.e.aux12v’ to properly track the 12v auxiliary power.</li></ol></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We chose #2 as it just seems easier and better tracks what is actually happening in the car. The only issue in the Tesla Roadster is we don’t know how to tell the difference between states #3 and #4, so we just set v.e.awake and v.e.on at the same time now (to track the ignition on). Perhaps we can go looking to try to find that on the CAN bus, but I don’t think of it as that important (also difficult for me because I don’t have the car any more). If somebody can get three CRTD can bus dumps from a roadster for a) with the ignition off, b) with ignition to the first stop, and c) with ignition fully on, I can look at it to see what I can find.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Bottom line is that the states for Roadster are now:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><ul class="MailOutline"><li class="">Car asleep. v.e.awake=off, v.e.on=off, v.e.aux12v=off.</li><li class="">The charge port or door handle is opened (or vehicle woken up from the app). v.e.awake=off, v.e.on=off, v.e.aux12v=on.</li><li class="">The ignition is turned on. v.e.awake=on, v.e.on=on, v.e.aux12v=on.</li></ul></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think that will also work for the Tesla Model S, X and 3 (which have the same power states). Note that modern Tesla cars don’t have ignition switches, and don’t have any difference between states #3 and #4.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Regards, Mark.<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 10 Feb 2020, at 2:08 AM, Greg D. <<a href="mailto:gregd2350@gmail.com" class="">gregd2350@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
  
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    Hi Mark, Michael,<br class="">
    <br class="">
    Mmmm, not sure this is right.  The states you outline are exactly
    what I would expect, and what I am seeing with my car:  Awake
    corresponds to the car running the little pump, lighting the charge
    ring if the door is open, etc.  The On state properly corresponds to
    the turning of the key.  All that is fine as is.  That it also
    powers the 12v Accessory port on the dash is a bit odd, but I think
    we can ignore that for these purposes.  It's just one of this
    magical little car's quirks.  <br class="">
    <br class="">
    So, all was fine.  I can't test the Idling message without going for
    a long drive, but the triggering of vehicle.on events does work
    (follows the key), so I guess that's progress.  Cosmetically, we
    have addressed the issues, but the collateral damage?  I did the
    update, and the change sort of breaks the app Wake up the car. 
    Waking it doesn't change the state of Awake, though the car does
    wake up (in the old definition) as before.  I don't think we're
    really at root cause, so the fixes are unraveling other things.<br class="">
    <br class="">
    What I was thinking explains both of my issues - the Idling message,
    and the triggering of vehicle.on events - is that both of those
    appear to be qualified by Awake instead of On.  That, I think, is
    the root cause.  That the vehicle.on event follows the key (as it
    should) is because we've changed the definition on Awake, not the
    use of On as the trigger for vehicle.on.  I am using vehicle.on, not
    vehicle.awake, for a reason.  Vehicle.awake should follow the little
    pump and its friends, not the key.  Vehicle.on and vehicle.off
    should follow the key.  vehicle.off is (and has been) fine. 
    Vehicle.on isn't tied to On as it should.<br class="">
    <br class="">
    Having the Aux12v metric is fine by itself, I suppose, and may be
    useful for other cars that have their own quirks.  But the common
    definition of Awake for the Roadster was properly implemented before
    this change.  That the Roadster powers the Aux12v outlet when the
    car is Awake instead of following the key to On isn't relevant to
    the definition of Awake.<br class="">
    <br class="">
    Greg<br class="">
    <br class="">
    <br class="">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Mark Webb-Johnson wrote:<br class="">
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:02E4D449-32CA-418E-A8A4-BCB01B4CBBF6@webb-johnson.net" class="">
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      OK. This is in 3.2.010-6-gac7c26d.
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">@Greg can you try this one (OTA) and let me know if
        you see any more of these alerts.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Regards, Mark.<br class="">
        <div class=""><br class="">
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">On 9 Feb 2020, at 5:50 PM, Michael Balzer <<a href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">dexter@expeedo.de</a>> wrote:</div>
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
            <div class="">
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              <div class=""> Yes, sounds good to me.<br class="">
                <br class="">
                Regards,<br class="">
                Michael<br class="">
                <br class="">
                <br class="">
                <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 09.02.20 um 09:53
                  schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:<br class="">
                </div>
                <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:0C5F9CD4-AC22-4373-96EC-6C64787DE17F@webb-johnson.net" class="">
                  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
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                  <div class="">The Tesla Roadster transmits it’s
                    sleep/awake status:</div>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none;
                    padding: 0px;" class="">
                    <div class="">ID 0x100 B1=0x96</div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none;
                    padding: 0px;" class="">
                    <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none;
                      padding: 0px;" class="">
                      <div class="">B4=doors3</div>
                    </blockquote>
                  </blockquote>
                  <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none;
                    padding: 0px;" class="">
                    <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none;
                      padding: 0px;" class="">
                      <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border:
                        none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                        <div class="">bit1 = awake/asleep (awake=1 /
                          asleep=0)</div>
                      </blockquote>
                    </blockquote>
                  </blockquote>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">In the v2 code, we simply sent this as
                    doors3 value (in the ‘D’ protocol message).</div>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">The v3 code has this as:</div>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none;
                    padding: 0px;" class="">
                    <div class="">
                      <div class="">case 0x96: // Doors / Charging
                        yes/no</div>
                      <div class="">  {</div>
                      <div class="">  m_awake = d[3] & 0x01;</div>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <div class="">
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">Which was wrong (bit #0). I fixed it
                      in recent commit
                      39cdb7e19e5a3b88ab7217a9adb0cb6008278ab1 to
                      'm_awake = d[3] & 0x02’ (bit #1), and that now
                      correctly tracks the vehicle state. This was to
                      address bug 'Tesla Roadster: Vehicle AWAKE metric
                      not correct #328’.</div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">Over the years, it seems that the
                      meaning of doors3 has changed. It originally just
                      specified bit #1, but now the protocol specifies:</div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none;
                    padding: 0px;" class="">
                    <div class="">
                      <div class="">
                        <div class="page" title="Page 11">
                          <div class="layoutArea">
                            <div class="column">
                              <ul style="list-style-type: none" class="">
                                <li class=""><p class=""><span style="color: rgb(0,
                                      0, 10); font-style: normal;
                                      font-size: 14px;" class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono">Door
                                        state #3 </font></span></p><p class=""><span style="color: rgb(0,
                                      0, 10); font-style: normal;
                                      font-size: 14px;" class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono">bit0
                                        = Car awake (turned on=1 /
                                        off=0)<br class="">
                                        bit1 = Cooling pump (on=1/off=0)<br class="">
                                        bit6 = 1=Logged into motor
                                        controller<br class="">
                                        bit7 = 1=Motor controller in
                                        configuration mode</font></span><span style="font-size: 12.000000pt;
                                      font-family: 'ArialMT'; color:
                                      rgb(0.000000%, 0.000000%,
                                      3.921000%)" class=""> </span></p>
                                </li>
                              </ul>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <div class="">
                    <div class="">The Tesla Roadster code in v2 never
                      adhered to that, and just set doors3 to whatever
                      it saw on the bus. However, I’ve never seen values
                      other than 0x00 or 0x02 on that byte. Certainly,
                      no known value for bit#0 (car turned on). I guess
                      this is where the confusion from the conversion v2
                      -> v3 came from (the protocol document saying
                      ‘awake’ in bit#0, vs cooling pump in bit #1).
                      Tesla Roadster users know the cooling pump as
                      ‘awake/sleep’.</div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">So, where are we now? A general car
                      can be defined as at least these states:</div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <ol class="MailOutline">
                        <li class="">Ignition off, asleep, consuming as
                          little power as possible</li>
                        <li class="">Ignition off, awake, with some
                          systems using power</li>
                        <li class="">Ignition on to the first stop (just
                          some systems on, but car not started)</li>
                        <li class="">Ignition on all the way (engine
                          running or starting)</li>
                        <li class="">Ignition past on all the way
                          (turning the engine starter motor)</li>
                      </ol>
                    </div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">We can ignore #5 for electric cars.</div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">In v3, we have these metrics:</div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <ul class="MailOutline">
                        <li class="">v.e.awake</li>
                        <li class="">v.e.on</li>
                        <li class="">v.e.charging12v</li>
                      </ul>
                    </div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">I assumed that v.e.awake corresponds
                      to state #2, and v.e.on to states #3 and/or #4.</div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">The v.e.charging12v doesn’t really
                      work for the Roadster. The cooling pump is not
                      related to the little 12v battery charging system.</div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">I guess I could add a standard metric
                      ‘v.e.aux12v’ to indicate the auxiliary 12v system
                      is on (and then set v.e.awake and v.e.ok
                      corresponding to the ignition switch). Is that
                      acceptable?</div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">Regards, Mark.</div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                        <div class="">On 8 Feb 2020, at 5:46 AM, Greg D.
                          <<a href="mailto:gregd2350@gmail.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gregd2350@gmail.com</a>>
                          wrote:</div>
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                            Hi Michael, Mark,<br class="">
                            <br class="">
                            Ok, very interesting that this is an old
                            feature.  I only just started seeing the
                            message very recently.  What changed?<br class="">
                            <br class="">
                            As to "Awake" vs "On" vs "Ignited", they are
                            definitely different.  I am seeing the
                            correct state reflected in v.e.awake and
                            v.e.on.  Simply opening the car door when
                            the car is asleep will wake it up (v.e.awake
                            turns to yes), and inserting the key and
                            moving it to the "Accessory" position (first
                            notch) moves the state to "On" (both metrics
                            are "yes").  Note that the car is not On
                            (drivable) until the key is moved one notch
                            farther; I'm presuming that's "Ignited" in
                            your terminology.  <br class="">
                            <br class="">
                            But something has changed.  I have an event
                            script tied to vehicle.on which activates
                            ext12v power to enable a HUD or similar
                            (*).  Simply awakening the car triggers the
                            script, a behavior I believe is new, and
                            incorrect.  The script should get activated
                            only when the key is moved to Accessory
                            (your "On" state).  When the car goes
                            directly back to sleep after a few minutes,
                            the vehicle.off script correctly does not
                            trigger.  Turning the car to Accessory, then
                            Off (removing the key), does correctly
                            trigger the vehicle.off script, even though
                            the car is still Awake at the time.<br class="">
                            <br class="">
                            So what I think is happening with the
                            "Vehicle is idling" message is that it's a
                            side effect of some logic change to what
                            "on" is, that it's being sensed and
                            triggered by "Awake" instead of "On".  The
                            car is definitely Awake during charging, but
                            it is not On.  And not being On, the Idle
                            message shouldn't be triggered, nor should
                            my HUD be turned on.<br class="">
                            <br class="">
                            What changed?<br class="">
                            <br class="">
                            Greg<br class="">
                            <br class="">
                            (*)  Actually, the script does a bit more,
                            to work around the CAN3 bus hangs:<br class="">
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                            <br class="">
                            <tt class="">power ext12v off</tt><tt class=""><br class="">
                            </tt><tt class="">obdii ecu stop</tt><tt class=""><br class="">
                            </tt><tt class="">obdii ecu start can3</tt><tt class=""><br class="">
                            </tt><tt class="">power ext12v on</tt><br class="">
                            <br class="">
                            <br class="">
                            <br class="">
                            <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Michael Balzer
                              wrote:<br class="">
                            </div>
                            <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:39ff043f-34e9-4f28-29cb-4d24ce43a65c@expeedo.de" class="">
                              <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
                              <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Greg, Mark,<br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                that's actually a very old feature
                                originating from V2. It's meant to alert
                                about a car left turned on, which is
                                both a potential security issue (key is
                                plugged) and a potential fire/explosion
                                threat on vehicles that may overcharge
                                the 12V battery from the DC/DC
                                converter. It's also main battery
                                drainage.<br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                This also needs to trigger during
                                charging, but of course not if the
                                vehicle wakes itself for some internal
                                checks or OTA updates / whatever.<br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                This was/is using the definition of
                                "awake" as "turned on", and "on" as
                                "ignited". It seems all cars except the
                                roadster follow this scheme now, so
                                maybe we should separate the
                                "maintenance awake" state?<br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                Regards,<br class="">
                                Michael<br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                Am 07.02.20 um 08:43 schrieb Mark
                                Webb-Johnson:<br class="">
                              </div>
                              <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:2E9FB03E-E1F9-4471-85DC-3530F197795B@webb-johnson.net" class="">
                                <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
                                Greg,
                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                                <div class="">That would be the system
                                  thinking the vehicle is asleep, but
                                  speed > 0.</div>
                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                                <div class="">I did fix the roadster
                                  awake/sleep flag (which was not being
                                  set correctly before), so most likely
                                  this is something new.</div>
                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                                <div class="">The logic is
                                  in VehicleTicker1() in vehicle.cpp. It
                                  is:</div>
                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                                <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px;
                                  border: none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style: normal;
                                          font-size: 14px;" class="">//
                                          Idle alert:</span></font></div>
                                    <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style: normal;
                                          font-size: 14px;" class="">if
(!StdMetrics.ms_v_env_awake->AsBool() ||
                                          StdMetrics.ms_v_pos_speed->AsFloat()
                                          > 0)</span></font></div>
                                    <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style: normal;
                                          font-size: 14px;" class="">  {</span></font></div>
                                    <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style: normal;
                                          font-size: 14px;" class=""> 
                                          m_idle_ticker = 15 * 60; //
                                          first alert after 15 minutes</span></font></div>
                                    <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style: normal;
                                          font-size: 14px;" class="">  }</span></font></div>
                                    <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style: normal;
                                          font-size: 14px;" class="">else
                                          if (m_idle_ticker > 0
                                          && --m_idle_ticker ==
                                          0)</span></font></div>
                                    <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style: normal;
                                          font-size: 14px;" class="">  {</span></font></div>
                                    <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style: normal;
                                          font-size: 14px;" class=""> 
                                          NotifyVehicleIdling();</span></font></div>
                                    <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style: normal;
                                          font-size: 14px;" class=""> 
                                          m_idle_ticker = 60 * 60; //
                                          successive alerts every 60
                                          minutes</span></font></div>
                                    <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style: normal;
                                          font-size: 14px;" class="">  }</span></font></div>
                                  </div>
                                </blockquote>
                                <div class="">
                                  <div class=""><br class="">
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">So, that resets the
                                    fifteen minute timer whenever the
                                    vehicle is either asleep OR
                                    speed>0 (driving). Otherwise the
                                    timer counts down, and after 15
                                    minutes the alert is raised (and
                                    every 60 minutes thereafter until
                                    either the vehicle goes to sleep or
                                    speed>0).</div>
                                  <div class=""><br class="">
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">For roadster, that work
                                    work. The car can ‘awake’ itself for
                                    charging,etc.</div>
                                  <div class=""><br class="">
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">I am not really sure why
                                    we are using ms_v_env_awake in the
                                    first place here. Why do we care if
                                    the vehicle is awake or not? Surely
                                    we should be looking at ms_v_env_on
                                    (ie; vehicle switched on)? But for
                                    JDEMO users that would cause a
                                    problem (as for they have to leave
                                    the vehicle ignition on while
                                    charging).</div>
                                  <div class=""><br class="">
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">Maybe simplest to
                                    disable this alert for Roadster,
                                    unless someone else has any better
                                    ideas. In any case, we need to think
                                    about using ms_v_env_awake vs
                                    ms_v_env_on.</div>
                                  <div class=""><br class="">
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">Regards, Mark.</div>
                                  <div class=""><br class="">
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                                      <div class="">On 7 Feb 2020, at
                                        2:22 AM, Greg D. <<a href="mailto:gregd2350@gmail.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gregd2350@gmail.com</a>>
                                        wrote:</div>
                                      <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                                      <div class="">
                                        <div class="">Hi folks,<br class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          I'm starting to get an alert
                                          "Vehicle is idling / stopped
                                          turned on"<br class="">
                                          when my Roadster is charging.
                                           Seems to occur every hour.<br class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          Is this something new with
                                          OVMSv3, or did something
                                          change / break on my<br class="">
                                          car?<br class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          Greg<br class="">
                                          <br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
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                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </blockquote>
                                  </div>
                                  <br class="">
                                </div>
                                <br class="">
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                              <br class="">
                              <pre class="moz-signature" cols="144">-- 
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Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
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                <br class="">
                <pre class="moz-signature" cols="160">-- 
Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal
Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
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