[Ovmsdev] OVMS v2 stock / OVMS v3

Julien (JaXX) Banchet jaxx at jaxx.org
Wed Aug 26 16:21:59 HKT 2015

I agree,

The unit has to be simple (actually i would have seen something modular, 
with optionnal means of comms, but it would be a pain on the SW side I 
Even a simple console port could do... or ethernet (being a network guy, 
not liking wifi latency) and an MQTT stack :-)

[ question: will each means of communication be disable-able ? the Twizy 
has a cr*ppy service battery, the actual v2 eats it up in less than a 
week in the best case, killing the car literally if you're away from a 
plug, there is nearly no need for a continuosly powered GSM/GPS when the 
car isn't moving, or barely a status update on a regular basis or on 
events ]


Le 26/08/2015 09:58, Mark Webb-Johnson a écrit :
> Display is interesting, and something a few have asked about.
> My suggestion was to keep this off the basic unit, as it is just too 
> expensive and means the unit must be mounted in a visible position. It 
> dramatically changes the housing design, and is hard to please 
> everyone with one design. I would rather provide:
>   * A standard port that can be used to drive an external display
>   * A standard protocol that can be used for external displays either
>     via that port or via bluetooth/wifi/cellular comms link
> That would mean a display could be run on an iPhone/Android device via 
> bluetooth/wifi.
> It would also mean that a dumb display couldn’t be used, which would 
> drive up cost for those that wanted a display, but would give us the 
> flexibility to add one for those that want it. It would also keep all 
> the display code out of the core project and into a separate project.
> Regards, Mark.
>> On 26 Aug, 2015, at 3:48 pm, Julien (JaXX) Banchet <jaxx at jaxx.org 
>> <mailto:jaxx at jaxx.org>> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I have little personnal time but I'd still be highly interested in 
>> putting what I have on testing out a beta v3... I'm slowly working on 
>> a cluster replacement for the Twizy and having a board to preprocess 
>> comms to the CANbus (or moving what I'm doing to the "heavyweight" 
>> part of a Udoo Neo-like board) would be a great relief.
>> Yes, I intend to make those LCD-dashboard-savvy Mercedes and Jaguar 
>> drivers jealous :-)
>> So if there are any available slots for a test board or better/safer, 
>> an early version of a production board (to give priority to the devs, 
>> i'm in no hurry), count me in.
>> Best,
>> Julien JaXX Banchet
>> Le 26/08/2015 09:37, Mark Webb-Johnson a écrit :
>>> Development boards are a tricky thing. Our suppliers hate making too 
>>> many of them.
>>> What I’ve told them this time is to firstly make a couple of test 
>>> boards that we can use to validate all major functionality (can we 
>>> program, can we reach all the auxiliary chips, do the lights flash, 
>>> etc). Once we have that, then come up with a development board based 
>>> on the test board design (without box, and more pinouts available) 
>>> and make 10 of them hand-soldered. We’ll send those out to the guys 
>>> developing vehicle modules to help with their porting processes.
>>> Based on the feedback of the development boards, we can then 
>>> re-layout the production board to optimise for the chosen case, and 
>>> make the first production run (probably 100 to 200 units, machine 
>>> soldered).
>>> Regards, Mark.
>>>> On 25 Aug, 2015, at 4:04 pm, Michael Balzer <dexter at expeedo.de 
>>>> <mailto:dexter at expeedo.de>> wrote:
>>>> Great news, thanks!
>>>> Please put me on the list for two of the V3 development boards.
>>>> I've forwarded your info to the Twizy forum. There are some active 
>>>> beta testers, I asked to send orders for the V3 development board 
>>>> to me or you.
>>>> I said pricing will probably be max 200 €.
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Michael
>>>> Am 25.08.2015 um 07:41 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:
>>>>> Plans change.
>>>>> For some inexplicable reason (Michael? #twizycon?), we had a jump 
>>>>> in order for the v2 modules. August is not even yet over, and they 
>>>>> are going too quickly now. We are down to about 40 (of which I 
>>>>> need to retain at least 10 for RMA/repair purposes).
>>>>> The Arduino+Linux hybrid sample boards look to be delayed another 
>>>>> month, and MBED OS was due in August 2015 but has yet to make an 
>>>>> appearance.
>>>>> I checked, and the supplier has just a few hundred SIM908 modules 
>>>>> left.
>>>>> Accordingly, I just put in an order for definitely-the-last-batch 
>>>>> of 100x v2 modules. With four more months to go in the year, I’ll 
>>>>> take the risk.
>>>>> Hopefully we can start work on v3 next month, once we see the 
>>>>> Arduino+Linux hybrid vs MBED OS options solidify. I suspect MBED 
>>>>> OS won’t be finalised until 2016Q1 anyway. The guys I am working 
>>>>> with in China suggest to first produce a small batch of 
>>>>> development boards (not in a case, but functionally complete) so 
>>>>> that we can start development work, and then work on packaging the 
>>>>> board into a small footprint with case, certification, etc. I 
>>>>> suspect that this could be a six month project to get a final v3 
>>>>> based packaged product, so those 140 remaining v2 modules should 
>>>>> hopefully give us some breathing room.
>>>>> I am excited about bluetooth and wifi options. Pricing for these 
>>>>> has plummeted, and available options grown dramatically. I am 
>>>>> hopeful that we can get a small board with cellular + gps + wifi + 
>>>>> bluetooth radios, for a reasonable cost. Add on a bunch of flash 
>>>>> (1GB+), SD-card, RAM (at least 128KB, maybe more), at least 2 CAN 
>>>>> ports, and we’ll have a pretty amazing vehicle hacking and 
>>>>> telemetry platform.
>>>>> Regards, Mark
>>>>>> On 11 Aug, 2015, at 10:17 am, Mark Webb-Johnson 
>>>>>> <mark at webb-johnson.net <mailto:mark at webb-johnson.net>> wrote:
>>>>>> At the current rate, the batch we have of OVMS v2 modules will 
>>>>>> run out sometime in the next two months.
>>>>>> Given the imminent shutdown of AT&T’s 2G network in USA, global 
>>>>>> re-allocation of 2G frequency bands, and the difficulties we are 
>>>>>> having obtaining the discontinued SIM908, it is decision time.
>>>>>> Option #1: Re-order a large batch now, enough to last us into the 
>>>>>> new year, but with the risk that I’ll be personally stuck with them.
>>>>>> Option #2: Just let the v2 modules run out, and move on with the 
>>>>>> plans for v3.
>>>>>> Development on v2 is stagnating. Partly because the platform 
>>>>>> already does what we need it to do, and partly because we’re 
>>>>>> hitting the limits (no external connectivity other than GPRS, 
>>>>>> single CAN bus, no storage, limited RAM, flash, etc).
>>>>>> The v3 plans have been on hold for some time, pending MBED OS 
>>>>>> release (first beta due this month) and the imminent release of 
>>>>>> hybrid processors such as that used in the UDOO Neo (due in 
>>>>>> September). We know what we want, but it is just too hard to pick 
>>>>>> a long-term platform when everything is on the cusp of changing.
>>>>>> I really want a v3 module. Something with lots of RAM and Flash, 
>>>>>> wifi, bluetooth and cellular connectivity, multiple CAN bus 
>>>>>> support, and a rich development platform. Something we can all 
>>>>>> use as a platform for reverse engineering as well as end-user 
>>>>>> connectivity. I’ll do everything I can to make this a reality. 
>>>>>> Just not today. Too much is changing and we need to wait for 
>>>>>> things to stabilise.
>>>>>> So, my gut feeling is to choose option #2. 2G GPRS is slowing 
>>>>>> dying, and building more on that platform just seems to be the 
>>>>>> wrong decision. This may leave us with several months of no 
>>>>>> platform stock, but I would rather people waited than spend $100 
>>>>>> on something that is going to be obsolete/outdated. Kind of like 
>>>>>> buying an iPhone in August ;-) I don’t want to be stuck with the 
>>>>>> stock, and I don’t want people to buy a v2, only to have v3 come 
>>>>>> out a week later.
>>>>>> Even if we started now, which we can’t, an optimistic schedule 
>>>>>> for the first end-user v3 units would be early 2016.
>>>>>> So, tough decisions, but I really think option #2 is best. Bottom 
>>>>>> line is if you need v2 modules, order them now.
>>>>>> If you are likely to need a large quantity for any upcoming 
>>>>>> projects, let me know. The SIM908 modules will be unavailable 
>>>>>> within the next month or so, and changing to another module is a 
>>>>>> PITA I don’t want to deal with (especially given the tight RAM 
>>>>>> and FLASH we have now).
>>>>>> Regards, Mark.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> -- 
>>>> Michael Balzer * Paradestr. 8 * D-42107 Wuppertal
>>>> Fon 0202 / 272 2201 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
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