<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
Cars now often do not provide live process data frames on the OBD
port's primary CAN. You may have an auxiliary CAN bus there, e.g.
for infotainment communication, that may provide live frames. But
you may not be able to detect a charge session from these.<br>
<br>
A very simple approach is to monitor the 12V level. For example on
the UpMiiGo, if it rises to around 13V the car is recharging the 12V
battery, if it goes to 14V or higher, it's fully awake for a drive
or charge session. We used that approach until I found PIDs we can
poll without keeping the car awake.<br>
<br>
If you didn't do so yet, try polling without a tester presence or
diag session.<br>
<br>
Also try polling low priority / auxiliary PIDs instead of the actual
status PIDs, i.e. PIDs that do not carry crucial system state data.<br>
<br>
You may also need to keep the polling frequency below some threshold
to avoid the keep-alive trigger.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Michael<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 28.09.22 um 06:15 schrieb Timo
Penttilä:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:AM5P192MB01314AD4C34C78C0055F3AE784549@AM5P192MB0131.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered
medium)">
<style>@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}@font-face
{font-family:Verdana;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;
mso-fareast-language:SV;}span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}</style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi
Michael.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Back when I had a Kia Niro I did some
measurements on power draw.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">It’s not the poll itself that causes the power
drain, it prevents the car from going to deep sleep. So I
don’t think polling less frequently will have much effect. I
didn’t find any way on the Kia to detect if it’s on without
additional hardware involved, e.g. to check if there was
power on the radio fuse.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><a
href="https://github.com/openvehicles/Open-Vehicle-Monitoring-System-3/issues/275"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/openvehicles/Open-Vehicle-Monitoring-System-3/issues/275</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:navy"
lang="EN-US">Best Regards</span></b><span
style="color:black" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:navy"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">TIMO
PENTTILÄ</span></b><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> OvmsDev
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ovmsdev-bounces@lists.openvehicles.com"><ovmsdev-bounces@lists.openvehicles.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael Geddes<br>
<b>Sent:</b> den 28 september 2022 04:31<br>
<b>To:</b> OVMS Developers
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ovmsdev@lists.openvehicles.com"><ovmsdev@lists.openvehicles.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ovmsdev] OVMS Power Drain?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yeah, I'm beginning to see that
continuous polls are Bad(tm).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">With my latest changes, the 2 polls
that are always done are for detecting On and Unlock
which are on different module addresses. Setting the
Car Type to NONE (and rebooting) certainly confirms
that the battery drain goes away. Crap.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is there a better way of detecting
'On', 'unlock' and possibly 'alarm'? Anything else
could be checked much less frequently anyway.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Maybe I could use internal battery
test changes to trigger checks... A bit dodgy though. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Should I expect to see _any_
messages floating around on the bus without being
requested? I'm not seeing any.. Presumably if I send
'Tester Present' it will keep the module powered (and
back to square 1), or is there some kind of bus switch
that is not letting me see messages? I'm coming into
Can messages as a complete noon. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Maybe Peter could help me on this, and we could put
some of my changes back to kia/Kona or the common
class when I'm done. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I'll certainly look at using the
wakeup. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">BTW for updating images I have set
a SSH pubkey and am using<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">scp <<image>> <a
href="mailto:admin@ovms.lan:/sd"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">admin@ovms.lan:/sd</a>
&& ssh
<a href="mailto:admin@ovms.lan" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">admin@ovms.lan</a>
"module reset" <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Which works like a charm! <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Michael <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, 27 Sept 2022, 3:55 pm
Michael Balzer, <<a
href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dexter@expeedo.de</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Michael,<br>
<br>
it's generally a bad idea to have polls running
just based on the client connection status.
Clients may be connected all the time, e.g. if
users attach some API pollers or set the App to
persistent background operation (which is
necessary for widgets or tasker scripting for
example).<br>
<br>
You should only enable polling when actually
necessary to perform some user requested action,
or to monitor a drive / charge session of
course.<br>
<br>
We've got an explicit "wakeup" command users can
call to tell the module to wake up the car. That
needs to implement some timeout to put the car
back to sleep if it doesn't do so by itself.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Michael<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 27.09.22 um 09:41
schrieb Michael Geddes:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks Michael,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I rang the Hyundai
service centre, and apparently, my BMS
should not need any updates (build date
2021 vs 2020 cars with the problem
apparently), but I'm putting it in for a
checkup of the battery. Apparently, the
BMS update was the subject of a recall for
those cars affected. I'm going to take it
in anyway in case. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">It seems, according to
the OVMS, that the 12V is going from 13v
down to 12v over about 3hours before
(generally) being recharged. Looking at
that link you shared with me (and related
<a
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr3Z_z1C0Uk&t=965s"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr3Z_z1C0Uk&t=965s</a>),
it should be more like 24 hours. It
still should be triggering a charge cycle
- and obviously in this case it seems to
miss one and then it just goes downhill
from there - so maybe the BMS still has a
bug; not helped by being forced to trigger
about 4x more frequently than normal!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Assuming nothing is
wrong with the car (which unless I install
some kind of external battery monitor like
that youtube clip), I can only assume that
the 3hr drain is because my Ioniq 5 module
is polling too much (which, seeing I
copied the vehicle_kianiroev/src/ as my
base, would mean THAT polls too much as
well). I still have the PollSetPidList()
called with the same data (albeit a copy)
as the Kia. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">So in drafting this
email I think I've hit on the problem,
which is when the car is off, but a V2 or
V3 client is connected (like the android
app in 'background' mode), then it uses
the 'Charging' pollstate element. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">It has {OFF, Charging,
ON} at the moment, which means there's
space for a 4th which I will assign to
'off, not-charging and clients
connected'. I'll see what I can do to
drop that right down in polling frequency
and the number of modules being addressed.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">At some point soon it
might be worth me pushing up to a fork in
case anybody else wants to jump in! For
example, the Lock module that the kia has
is not present in the Australian version,
but I suspect US ones with key-card
ability might have it.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">//.ichael<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, 23 Sept 2022
at 17:03, Michael Balzer <<a
href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dexter@expeedo.de</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal">Michael,<br>
<br>
while the OVMS draws some power, unless
you actually keep the car alive <br>
by polling, that's normally no issue.
The 12V battery will be recharged <br>
automatically from the main battery by
the car.<br>
<br>
The Ioniq 5 though has a history of
issues with the 12V battery. <br>
According to Andrew Till, a BMS update
has fixed his issues:<br>
<a
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmfkvL_O1IA"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmfkvL_O1IA</a><br>
<br>
Also see his previous posts on that
topic.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Michael<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 23.09.22 um 09:55 schrieb Michael
Geddes:<br>
> Hi All,<br>
><br>
> I have just had a bit of a painful
experience with my 12V being <br>
> drained (twice). I'm guessing it's
related to OVMS, but also <br>
> something seems to have happened as
it was running file for a week!<br>
><br>
> For some reason, the 12V battery
graphs aren't working in the <br>
> (android) App.. which means I'm not
quite sure of the timelines, <br>
> however it was most likely
overnight. This morning my 12V was <br>
> severely depleted (like 6v!). (Oh,
it could be because I don't have <br>
> the app running in the background).<br>
><br>
> I'm assuming it's likely not to be
the direct drain of the device <br>
> itself, but maybe something it is
querying on the CAN busses or <br>
> something that is then causing a
consequential power drain?<br>
><br>
> I got road-side assist out and they
got me going, but then 20mins <br>
> later it was flat again! (I did see
an alert in the APP and so was <br>
> quick to go out, but was
unsuccessful in getting the car going
before <br>
> it died!).<br>
><br>
> I'm going to unplug it and see if
that stops the card from dying. <br>
> Also, I might leave the car on for
a bit longer.. but still I have <br>
> concerns!<br>
><br>
> Also I haven't started using
'write' commands yet. Any ideas?<br>
><br>
> //.ichael<br>
><br>
<br>
-- <br>
Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 *
D-58256 Ennepetal<br>
Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206
989 26<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
OvmsDev mailing list<br>
<a
href="mailto:OvmsDev@lists.openvehicles.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">OvmsDev@lists.openvehicles.com</a><br>
<a
href="http://lists.openvehicles.com/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://lists.openvehicles.com/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>OvmsDev mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:OvmsDev@lists.openvehicles.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">OvmsDev@lists.openvehicles.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://lists.openvehicles.com/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://lists.openvehicles.com/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26<o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
OvmsDev mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:OvmsDev@lists.openvehicles.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">OvmsDev@lists.openvehicles.com</a><br>
<a
href="http://lists.openvehicles.com/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://lists.openvehicles.com/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
OvmsDev mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OvmsDev@lists.openvehicles.com">OvmsDev@lists.openvehicles.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openvehicles.com/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev">http://lists.openvehicles.com/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal
Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26</pre>
</body>
</html>