<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>@Chris: Thanks for taking care of the upgrade process for the new
vehicle IDs</p>
<p>@Mark: I will have a 1 hour session with VCDS today to find any
other ECU/PIDs we can maybe use to see if the car is
on/off/charging/etc. So maybe I find the ID of the gateway as well</p>
<p>@Michael:<br>
I had the ignition off because I wanted to see if there is
anything I can query in that state. I've measured the voltages
again with ignition on: No change besides pin 1 becoming +12V (as
already mentioned @ wikipedia).<br>
I've tried to find (via Google) any (e)Up, or even general-VW,
specific pin schematics of the OBD connector... no luck. Maybe
there are some special gateway commands to put a specific CAN
directly to i.e. pin 3+11. But without getting hands on VW
internal docs I don't see how to get this info with try&error.<br>
I will give the CANopen scan a try.</p>
<p>On how to to a range scan (700-7FF): A little bit of more input
would be great. You can find my current class here:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/devmarxx/Open-Vehicle-Monitoring-System-3/blob/master/vehicle/OVMS.V3/components/vehicle_vweup/src/obd_eup.cpp">https://github.com/devmarxx/Open-Vehicle-Monitoring-System-3/blob/master/vehicle/OVMS.V3/components/vehicle_vweup/src/obd_eup.cpp</a></p>
<p>I thought of generating one entry for each of the txids (700-7FF)
in the vwup_polls[] array. But how do I tell the poller to accept
any respond Id? And which type and PID should I try?</p>
<p>Imho the most promising approach is to log what VCDS is doing and
which ECUs are in there and which PIDs each has. VCDS should know
all possible ECUs+PIDs for the new eUp. It has the newest
USB-interface and the software was just updated 2 weeks ago.</p>
<p>Soko<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 31.07.2020 11:29, Michael Balzer
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:678a545c-fecc-3404-b983-4891f6f96dfb@expeedo.de">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
You can first try to scan the ID range 700 - 7FF, as all currently
known e-Up devices are in that range.<br>
<br>
If you scan for unknown devices, you need to try different
standard requests and check for responses on all CAN IDs, as
ISO-TP allows devices to respond with arbitrary IDs.<br>
<br>
In case of no unknown OBD/ISO-TP responses you may also try doing
a CANopen scan:<br>
<a
href="https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/components/canopen/docs/Howto-detect-CANopen-nodes.html"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/components/canopen/docs/Howto-detect-CANopen-nodes.html</a><br>
<br>
…but chances are possibly low VW mixes ISO-TP with CANopen devices
(Renault does).<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Michael<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 31.07.20 um 10:54 schrieb Mark
Webb-Johnson:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:B7E0F74A-92EA-4315-9F67-630029A20907@webb-johnson.net">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
The other suggestion I have is to see if the gateway itself is
alive for query. If you know the gateway ECU can bus arbitration
ID (assuming you are not already doing that for polling).
Perhaps it responds to a normal OBDII standard poll (for things
like speed, etc), or a UDS style diagnostic query.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Regards, Mark.<br class="">
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 31 Jul 2020, at 3:50 PM, Michael Balzer
<<a href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">dexter@expeedo.de</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div class=""> Soko,<br class="">
<br class="">
you only had the door open, but not turned on the car?
If there are additional buses, they may be switched
off until the car is turned on…<br class="">
<br class="">
The OBD connector scheme is the general pin
assignment, I meant the specific VW e-Up schematics.
But if you don't see any voltages with the car turned
on, that's bad news.<br class="">
<br class="">
There may still be some command interface for the OBD
gateway to enable live data, but without any info
about the gateway, it will be hard to even find out
how to address it.<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br class="">
Michael<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 31.07.20 um 09:06
schrieb Soko:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:d26bd0bc-4f57-d727-1b86-183c030fbbb3@soko.cc"
class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8" class="">
<p class="">Hey guys,</p>
<p class="">If I did nothing wrong I have bad news:</p>
<p class="">@Michael:<br class="">
With OBD port schematics I think you mean this <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics#OBD-II_diagnostic_connector"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics#OBD-II_diagnostic_connector</a><br
class="">
Specifically if there are some other pins used
than the standard CAN pins 6 and 14.<br class="">
So I had the drivers door open, no key in ignition
and measured the voltages of all pins in relation
to pin 5 (signal ground). There is no voltage on
any pin besides 2.5V on 6 and 14, and 12V on 16 of
course. So there are no hidden CAN buses (or any
other signals) afaict.</p>
<p class="">@Mark:<br class="">
Thanks for the hint with the can log. It's way
easier than RE Tools for just checking if there is
any traffic.<br class="">
Having said that... there is no traffic whatsoever
besides what I am polling and the reply. Even when
ignition is on I only see the poll and the reply
on the can log</p>
<p class="">So it seems devmarxx was right: The
gateway shields everything and there are even no
other hidden signals on the OBD port.</p>
<p class="">I'm happy to try any other ideas you
guys have. Just let me know!</p>
<p class="">Soko<br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 31.07.2020 02:11,
Mark Webb-Johnson wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:9A478EA0-DC29-4367-A25D-9407EAEB2E8F@webb-johnson.net"
class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
If you are just looking for traffic on the CAN
bus, a simple can log would be the easiest.
Assuming you are on USB console, it is:
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border:
none; padding: 0px;" class="">
<div class="">OVMS# log level verbose
canlog-monitor</div>
<div class="">OVMS# can log start monitor crtd</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">If you are using ssh, you need to
add a:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border:
none; padding: 0px;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">OVMS# log monitor yes</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">To stop the logging:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border:
none; padding: 0px;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">OVMS# can log stop</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Documentation here:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border:
none; padding: 0px;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><a
href="https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/crtd/can_logging.html"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/crtd/can_logging.html</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">For my work, I personally
prefer this arrangement:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px;
border: none; padding: 0px;" class="">
<div class="">OVMS# can log start tcpserver
transmit gvret-b :23</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="">
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
class="">And then I use <a
href="https://www.savvycan.com/" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">SavvyCAN</a> on a
laptop to connect over wifi and work.</div>
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">Regarding the ‘re’ system, it is a
work-in-progress, and not currently
documented. It is still kind of a mess at the
moment (particularly for multiplexed message
IDs), as I continue to work on DBC
integration. That said, it is basically
functional.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">To start it:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border:
none; padding: 0px;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">OVMS# re start</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">To stop it:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border:
none; padding: 0px;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">OVMS# re stop</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">To see discovered IDs:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border:
none; padding: 0px;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">OVMS# re list</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">It will (by default) listen on all
open CAN buses, and show you the discovered
ID, message count, interval (in ms), and last
message seen.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">It has some rudimentary ability to
monitor active polling protocols with ‘re
obdii extended <min> <max>’ (or
standard), specifying the range of IDs used by
the ECUs.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">Regards, Mark</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 30 Jul 2020, at 11:56 PM,
Soko <<a href="mailto:ovms@soko.cc"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">ovms@soko.cc</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"
class="">
<div class="">
<p class="">@devmarxx: Is there any
doc/guide on how to use this RE Tools?</p>
<p class="">@Michael: Yeah, I know. You
would have done my 1-day work in 5
mins. I know C++ but I don't know the
OVMS framework. But its like with any
project: The issue is not the
language, its the framework.</p>
<p class="">Until you have yours you
have to settle with me unfortunately
;)</p>
<p class="">My cousin has a working VCDS
HEX interface and I have an y-adapter
so I can listen with an ELM327 adapter
to the commands VCDS is sending. Maybe
I can find any car status there.
Device 09 is a good hint. <br
class="">
</p>
<p class="">But as you said: I have
still have to poll this, even if I
find a status.</p>
<p class="">I can't say (of course) if
there's another CAN bus @ OBD port.
All this CAN/OBD/Bus stuff is
completely new to me.. ModBus RTU/TCP,
MBus etc. I would know ;)</p>
<p class="">So if you can point me in
any direction what to try - or what
you would do - I happy to dig into it.</p>
<p class="">Soko</p>
<p class="">PS: Any idea when you'll get
your Mii?<br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On
30.07.2020 17:14, Michael Balzer
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:193a06ae-81aa-52a0-047e-6bde5107dbdc@expeedo.de"
class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"
class="">
If only I had my Mii already…<br
class="">
<br class="">
If the OBD port is shielded from the
CAN traffic, you need to poll some
device. ECU = Engine Control Unit =
device 01.<br class="">
<br class="">
I would suspect the basic car status
info to be available from device 09
(central electrics), but it seems no
PIDs have been RE'd from there yet. So
maybe you need to derive the info from
some other mode/status register.<br
class="">
<br class="">
It's bad needing to continuosly poll
to get the live status data. Is
possibly another, unfiltered CAN bus
available at the OBD port?<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br class="">
Michael<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
30.07.20 um 16:43 schrieb Soko:<br
class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:c46c65de-ae20-f2db-4c2b-052843756691@soko.cc"
class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"
class="">
<p class="">Ahhh OK, I've found
OvmsVehicle::virtual void
TickerXXX(uint32_t ticker);<br
class="">
Got it! This was exactly my issue
as I didn't know about any
function which gets called
regularly so I could check
something like this...<br class="">
It's not an ideal situation
though: I just can slow down the
poll after my fail-counter gets
too high as I need to check when
the car gets powered again. So all
I can do is polling, lets say
every 60 secs when the car is off,
and increase it once its on. But
there is now way around this
60-sec polling if the only thing I
can do is poll :(<br class="">
</p>
<p class="">Afaik there is only the
sharkcow's list below, reverse
engineered by him from ODBeleven.</p>
<p class="">(dev)marxx exlpained to
me: There is a gateway between the
CAN-Buses and the OBD Connector in
all VW-AG vehicles which only
replies to polls and also acts as
security gateway if you want to
write to the buses.</p>
<p class="">So I think I cannot
really do a can log or use re tool
as the OBD interface stays quiet
if I'm not polling it...</p>
<p class="">And as there is no other
vehicle from
VW,Seat,Skoda,Audi,etc. in OVMS.
So I have no cheat-sheet :(</p>
<p class="">Anyhow... I would need
to poll one ECU (is this the
correct therm?) which doesn't
shuts down... or maybe the issue
is the OBD-gateway shutting down.<br
class="">
</p>
<p class="">What do you think?</p>
<p class="">Soko<br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On
30.07.2020 16:17, Michael Balzer
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:429f9711-74bd-828c-0c9c-3872f9b0bfac@expeedo.de"
class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8" class="">
Soko,<br class="">
<br class="">
nice progress :-)<br class="">
<br class="">
If you can't detect vehicle state
by listening to regular status CAN
frames, you can check the time
since the last poll reply in the
per second ticker.<br class="">
<br class="">
As poll replies normally come in
fast, you should be able to detect
a switch-off by a small timeout,
say 3 seconds… probably need to
add a counter, as a single poll
may get lost / ignored.<br
class="">
<br class="">
CAN tx errors can be caused by
other issues as well, so should
generally not be interpreted that
way.<br class="">
<br class="">
But… are you sure there are no
status frames on the bus? Have you
done a can log or tried the re
tool?<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br class="">
Michael<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
30.07.20 um 14:43 schrieb Soko:<br
class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:dfef03ed-b0e1-1fda-7eab-de5b6e49cc67@soko.cc"
class="">Hi guys, <br class="">
<br class="">
Want to report success on
connecting and reading my VW
e-Up via OBD cable using the
Poller. As you can see in the
screenshot of the log attached I
get an IncomingPollReply(..)
call and an SoC value of 33.333%
<br class="">
<br class="">
Once I turn of the ignition and
lock the car though I don't get
any replies no more (line D
793813) and then I get can1
errors... I'm polling with 10
seconds intervall. <br class="">
<br class="">
I know that this is as it should
be... but my issue is: I don't
have any way to know if the
ignition is on, the key is in,
the car is running, the car is
charging as the PIDs are not
known for such values (afaik by
the lists of sharkcow <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.goingelectric.de/wiki/Liste-der-OBD2-Codes/"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.goingelectric.de/wiki/Liste-der-OBD2-Codes/</a>).
<br class="">
<br class="">
So what would be the best
approach to change the different
polling states? Can I somehow
get called (in my vehicle-class)
if an can-error is thrown? Then
I would increase the poll
frequency. <br class="">
<br class="">
Any suggestions? <br class="">
<br class="">
thanks <br class="">
<br class="">
Soko <br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
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