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    <p>@Chris: Thanks for taking care of the upgrade process for the new
      vehicle IDs</p>
    <p>@Mark: I will have a 1 hour session with VCDS today to find any
      other ECU/PIDs we can maybe use to see if the car is
      on/off/charging/etc. So maybe I find the ID of the gateway as well</p>
    <p>@Michael:<br>
      I had the ignition off because I wanted to see if there is
      anything I can query in that state. I've measured the voltages
      again with ignition on: No change besides pin 1 becoming +12V (as
      already mentioned @ wikipedia).<br>
      I've tried to find (via Google) any (e)Up, or even general-VW,
      specific pin schematics of the OBD connector... no luck. Maybe
      there are some special gateway commands to put a specific CAN
      directly to i.e. pin 3+11. But without getting hands on VW
      internal docs I don't see how to get this info with try&error.<br>
      I will give the CANopen scan a try.</p>
    <p>On how to to a range scan (700-7FF): A little bit of more input
      would be great. You can find my current class here:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/devmarxx/Open-Vehicle-Monitoring-System-3/blob/master/vehicle/OVMS.V3/components/vehicle_vweup/src/obd_eup.cpp">https://github.com/devmarxx/Open-Vehicle-Monitoring-System-3/blob/master/vehicle/OVMS.V3/components/vehicle_vweup/src/obd_eup.cpp</a></p>
    <p>I thought of generating one entry for each of the txids (700-7FF)
      in the vwup_polls[] array. But how do I tell the poller to accept
      any respond Id? And which type and PID should I try?</p>
    <p>Imho the most promising approach is to log what VCDS is doing and
      which ECUs are in there and which PIDs each has. VCDS should know
      all possible ECUs+PIDs for the new eUp. It has the newest
      USB-interface and the software was just updated 2 weeks ago.</p>
    <p>Soko<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 31.07.2020 11:29, Michael Balzer
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:678a545c-fecc-3404-b983-4891f6f96dfb@expeedo.de">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      You can first try to scan the ID range 700 - 7FF, as all currently
      known e-Up devices are in that range.<br>
      <br>
      If you scan for unknown devices, you need to try different
      standard requests and check for responses on all CAN IDs, as
      ISO-TP allows devices to respond with arbitrary IDs.<br>
      <br>
      In case of no unknown OBD/ISO-TP responses you may also try doing
      a CANopen scan:<br>
      <a
href="https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/components/canopen/docs/Howto-detect-CANopen-nodes.html"
        moz-do-not-send="true">https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/components/canopen/docs/Howto-detect-CANopen-nodes.html</a><br>
      <br>
      …but chances are possibly low VW mixes ISO-TP with CANopen devices
      (Renault does).<br>
      <br>
      Regards,<br>
      Michael<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 31.07.20 um 10:54 schrieb Mark
        Webb-Johnson:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite"
        cite="mid:B7E0F74A-92EA-4315-9F67-630029A20907@webb-johnson.net">
        <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
          charset=UTF-8">
        The other suggestion I have is to see if the gateway itself is
        alive for query. If you know the gateway ECU can bus arbitration
        ID (assuming you are not already doing that for polling).
        Perhaps it responds to a normal OBDII standard poll (for things
        like speed, etc), or a UDS style diagnostic query.
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">Regards, Mark.<br class="">
          <div><br class="">
            <blockquote type="cite" class="">
              <div class="">On 31 Jul 2020, at 3:50 PM, Michael Balzer
                <<a href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de" class=""
                  moz-do-not-send="true">dexter@expeedo.de</a>>
                wrote:</div>
              <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
              <div class="">
                <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
                  charset=UTF-8" class="">
                <div class=""> Soko,<br class="">
                  <br class="">
                  you only had the door open, but not turned on the car?
                  If there are additional buses, they may be switched
                  off until the car is turned on…<br class="">
                  <br class="">
                  The OBD connector scheme is the general pin
                  assignment, I meant the specific VW e-Up schematics.
                  But if you don't see any voltages with the car turned
                  on, that's bad news.<br class="">
                  <br class="">
                  There may still be some command interface for the OBD
                  gateway to enable live data, but without any info
                  about the gateway, it will be hard to even find out
                  how to address it.<br class="">
                  <br class="">
                  Regards,<br class="">
                  Michael<br class="">
                  <br class="">
                  <br class="">
                  <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 31.07.20 um 09:06
                    schrieb Soko:<br class="">
                  </div>
                  <blockquote type="cite"
                    cite="mid:d26bd0bc-4f57-d727-1b86-183c030fbbb3@soko.cc"
                    class="">
                    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
                      charset=UTF-8" class="">
                    <p class="">Hey guys,</p>
                    <p class="">If I did nothing wrong I have bad news:</p>
                    <p class="">@Michael:<br class="">
                      With OBD port schematics I think you mean this <a
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics#OBD-II_diagnostic_connector"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics#OBD-II_diagnostic_connector</a><br
                        class="">
                      Specifically if there are some other pins used
                      than the standard CAN pins 6 and 14.<br class="">
                      So I had the drivers door open, no key in ignition
                      and measured the voltages of all pins in relation
                      to pin 5 (signal ground). There is no voltage on
                      any pin besides 2.5V on 6 and 14, and 12V on 16 of
                      course. So there are no hidden CAN buses (or any
                      other signals) afaict.</p>
                    <p class="">@Mark:<br class="">
                      Thanks for the hint with the can log. It's way
                      easier than RE Tools for just checking if there is
                      any traffic.<br class="">
                      Having said that... there is no traffic whatsoever
                      besides what I am polling and the reply. Even when
                      ignition is on I only see the poll and the reply
                      on the can log</p>
                    <p class="">So it seems devmarxx was right: The
                      gateway shields everything and there are even no
                      other hidden signals on the OBD port.</p>
                    <p class="">I'm happy to try any other ideas you
                      guys have. Just let me know!</p>
                    <p class="">Soko<br class="">
                    </p>
                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 31.07.2020 02:11,
                      Mark Webb-Johnson wrote:<br class="">
                    </div>
                    <blockquote type="cite"
                      cite="mid:9A478EA0-DC29-4367-A25D-9407EAEB2E8F@webb-johnson.net"
                      class="">
                      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
                        content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
                      If you are just looking for traffic on the CAN
                      bus, a simple can log would be the easiest.
                      Assuming you are on USB console, it is:
                      <div class=""><br class="">
                      </div>
                      <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border:
                        none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                        <div class="">OVMS# log level verbose
                          canlog-monitor</div>
                        <div class="">OVMS# can log start monitor crtd</div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <div class="">
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">If you are using ssh, you need to
                          add a:</div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border:
                        none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                        <div class="">
                          <div class="">OVMS# log monitor yes</div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <div class="">
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">To stop the logging:</div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border:
                        none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                        <div class="">
                          <div class="">OVMS# can log stop</div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <div class="">
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">Documentation here:</div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border:
                        none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                        <div class="">
                          <div class=""><a
                              href="https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/crtd/can_logging.html"
                              class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/crtd/can_logging.html</a></div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <div class="">
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">
                          <div class="">
                            <div class="">For my work, I personally
                              prefer this arrangement:</div>
                            <div class=""><br class="">
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px;
                            border: none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                            <div class="">OVMS# can log start tcpserver
                              transmit gvret-b :23</div>
                          </blockquote>
                          <div class="">
                            <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
                              class=""><br class="">
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
                            class="">And then I use <a
                              href="https://www.savvycan.com/" class=""
                              moz-do-not-send="true">SavvyCAN</a> on a
                            laptop to connect over wifi and work.</div>
                          <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
                            class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <div class="">Regarding the ‘re’ system, it is a
                          work-in-progress, and not currently
                          documented. It is still kind of a mess at the
                          moment (particularly for multiplexed message
                          IDs), as I continue to work on DBC
                          integration. That said, it is basically
                          functional.</div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div class="">To start it:</div>
                      <div class=""><br class="">
                      </div>
                      <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border:
                        none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                        <div class="">
                          <div class="">OVMS# re start</div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <div class="">
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">To stop it:</div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border:
                        none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                        <div class="">
                          <div class="">OVMS# re stop</div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <div class="">
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">To see discovered IDs:</div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border:
                        none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                        <div class="">
                          <div class="">OVMS# re list</div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <div class="">
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">It will (by default) listen on all
                          open CAN buses, and show you the discovered
                          ID, message count, interval (in ms), and last
                          message seen.</div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">It has some rudimentary ability to
                          monitor active polling protocols with ‘re
                          obdii extended <min> <max>’ (or
                          standard), specifying the range of IDs used by
                          the ECUs.</div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div class="">
                        <div class="">Regards, Mark</div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                            <div class="">On 30 Jul 2020, at 11:56 PM,
                              Soko <<a href="mailto:ovms@soko.cc"
                                class="" moz-do-not-send="true">ovms@soko.cc</a>>
                              wrote:</div>
                            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                            <div class="">
                              <meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
                                content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"
                                class="">
                              <div class="">
                                <p class="">@devmarxx: Is there any
                                  doc/guide on how to use this RE Tools?</p>
                                <p class="">@Michael: Yeah, I know. You
                                  would have done my 1-day work in 5
                                  mins. I know C++ but I don't know the
                                  OVMS framework. But its like with any
                                  project: The issue is not the
                                  language, its the framework.</p>
                                <p class="">Until you have yours you
                                  have to settle with me unfortunately
                                  ;)</p>
                                <p class="">My cousin has a working VCDS
                                  HEX interface and I have an y-adapter
                                  so I can listen with an ELM327 adapter
                                  to the commands VCDS is sending. Maybe
                                  I can find any car status there.
                                  Device 09 is a good hint. <br
                                    class="">
                                </p>
                                <p class="">But as you said: I have
                                  still have to poll this, even if I
                                  find a status.</p>
                                <p class="">I can't say (of course) if
                                  there's another CAN bus @ OBD port.
                                  All this CAN/OBD/Bus stuff is
                                  completely new to me.. ModBus RTU/TCP,
                                  MBus etc. I would know ;)</p>
                                <p class="">So if you can point me in
                                  any direction what to try - or what
                                  you would do - I happy to dig into it.</p>
                                <p class="">Soko</p>
                                <p class="">PS: Any idea when you'll get
                                  your Mii?<br class="">
                                </p>
                                <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On
                                  30.07.2020 17:14, Michael Balzer
                                  wrote:<br class="">
                                </div>
                                <blockquote type="cite"
                                  cite="mid:193a06ae-81aa-52a0-047e-6bde5107dbdc@expeedo.de"
                                  class="">
                                  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
                                    content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"
                                    class="">
                                  If only I had my Mii already…<br
                                    class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  If the OBD port is shielded from the
                                  CAN traffic, you need to poll some
                                  device. ECU = Engine Control Unit =
                                  device 01.<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  I would suspect the basic car status
                                  info to be available from device 09
                                  (central electrics), but it seems no
                                  PIDs have been RE'd from there yet. So
                                  maybe you need to derive the info from
                                  some other mode/status register.<br
                                    class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  It's bad needing to continuosly poll
                                  to get the live status data. Is
                                  possibly another, unfiltered CAN bus
                                  available at the OBD port?<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  Regards,<br class="">
                                  Michael<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
                                    30.07.20 um 16:43 schrieb Soko:<br
                                      class="">
                                  </div>
                                  <blockquote type="cite"
                                    cite="mid:c46c65de-ae20-f2db-4c2b-052843756691@soko.cc"
                                    class="">
                                    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
                                      content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"
                                      class="">
                                    <p class="">Ahhh OK, I've found
                                      OvmsVehicle::virtual void
                                      TickerXXX(uint32_t ticker);<br
                                        class="">
                                      Got it! This was exactly my issue
                                      as I didn't know about any
                                      function which gets called
                                      regularly so I could check
                                      something like this...<br class="">
                                      It's not an ideal situation
                                      though: I just can slow down the
                                      poll after my fail-counter gets
                                      too high as I need to check when
                                      the car gets powered again. So all
                                      I can do is polling, lets say
                                      every 60 secs when the car is off,
                                      and increase it once its on. But
                                      there is now way around this
                                      60-sec polling if the only thing I
                                      can do is poll :(<br class="">
                                    </p>
                                    <p class="">Afaik there is only the
                                      sharkcow's list below, reverse
                                      engineered by him from ODBeleven.</p>
                                    <p class="">(dev)marxx exlpained to
                                      me: There is a gateway between the
                                      CAN-Buses and the OBD Connector in
                                      all VW-AG vehicles which only
                                      replies to polls and also acts as
                                      security gateway if you want to
                                      write to the buses.</p>
                                    <p class="">So I think I cannot
                                      really do a can log or use re tool
                                      as the OBD interface stays quiet
                                      if I'm not polling it...</p>
                                    <p class="">And as there is no other
                                      vehicle from
                                      VW,Seat,Skoda,Audi,etc. in OVMS.
                                      So I have no cheat-sheet :(</p>
                                    <p class="">Anyhow... I would need
                                      to poll one ECU (is this the
                                      correct therm?) which doesn't
                                      shuts down... or maybe the issue
                                      is the OBD-gateway shutting down.<br
                                        class="">
                                    </p>
                                    <p class="">What do you think?</p>
                                    <p class="">Soko<br class="">
                                    </p>
                                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On
                                      30.07.2020 16:17, Michael Balzer
                                      wrote:<br class="">
                                    </div>
                                    <blockquote type="cite"
                                      cite="mid:429f9711-74bd-828c-0c9c-3872f9b0bfac@expeedo.de"
                                      class="">
                                      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
                                        content="text/html;
                                        charset=UTF-8" class="">
                                      Soko,<br class="">
                                      <br class="">
                                      nice progress :-)<br class="">
                                      <br class="">
                                      If you can't detect vehicle state
                                      by listening to regular status CAN
                                      frames, you can check the time
                                      since the last poll reply in the
                                      per second ticker.<br class="">
                                      <br class="">
                                      As poll replies normally come in
                                      fast, you should be able to detect
                                      a switch-off by a small timeout,
                                      say 3 seconds… probably need to
                                      add a counter, as a single poll
                                      may get lost / ignored.<br
                                        class="">
                                      <br class="">
                                      CAN tx errors can be caused by
                                      other issues as well, so should
                                      generally not be interpreted that
                                      way.<br class="">
                                      <br class="">
                                      But… are you sure there are no
                                      status frames on the bus? Have you
                                      done a can log or tried the re
                                      tool?<br class="">
                                      <br class="">
                                      Regards,<br class="">
                                      Michael<br class="">
                                      <br class="">
                                      <br class="">
                                      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
                                        30.07.20 um 14:43 schrieb Soko:<br
                                          class="">
                                      </div>
                                      <blockquote type="cite"
                                        cite="mid:dfef03ed-b0e1-1fda-7eab-de5b6e49cc67@soko.cc"
                                        class="">Hi guys, <br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        Want to report success on
                                        connecting and reading my VW
                                        e-Up via OBD cable using the
                                        Poller. As you can see in the
                                        screenshot of the log attached I
                                        get an IncomingPollReply(..)
                                        call and an SoC value of 33.333%
                                        <br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        Once I turn of the ignition and
                                        lock the car though I don't get
                                        any replies no more (line D
                                        793813) and then I get can1
                                        errors... I'm polling with 10
                                        seconds intervall. <br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        I know that this is as it should
                                        be... but my issue is: I don't
                                        have any way to know if the
                                        ignition is on, the key is in,
                                        the car is running, the car is
                                        charging as the PIDs are not
                                        known for such values (afaik by
                                        the lists of sharkcow <a
                                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.goingelectric.de/wiki/Liste-der-OBD2-Codes/"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.goingelectric.de/wiki/Liste-der-OBD2-Codes/</a>).
                                        <br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        So what would be the best
                                        approach to change the different
                                        polling states? Can I somehow
                                        get called (in my vehicle-class)
                                        if an can-error is thrown? Then
                                        I would increase the poll
                                        frequency. <br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        Any suggestions? <br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        thanks <br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        Soko <br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        <br class="">
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                                      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
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Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
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