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    Soko,<br>
    <br>
    you don't need to use the poller to scan for OBD devices. You can
    simply do manual transmissions and look for responses.<br>
    <br>
    To send a manual request, simply use the can tx command. Example:<br>
    <br>
    <tt>OVMS# can can1 tx standard 79b 02 01 00 00 00 00 00 00</tt><br>
    <br>
    This means: 2 byte OBD request sent to ID 700, type 01 = get current
    data, from PID 00. PID 00 is supposed (OBD-II) to reply with a four
    byte bitset of the device's PIDs 01-20 (hex) support.<br>
    <br>
    Send this with can logging enabled without filters, so you can see
    all responses. A response could look like this:<br>
    <br>
    <tt>V (591792) canlog-monitor: 1596194327.716686 1R11 7BB 03 7f 01
      11 00 00 00 00</tt><br>
    <br>
    This tells you:<br>
    <ul>
      <li>there is a device listening at 79b, which answers at 7bb --
        nice!<br>
      </li>
      <li>it probably talks ISO-TP -- nice!</li>
      <li> it  won't allow you to do this request in it's default
        session: 7F = serviceNotSupportedInActiveSession<br>
      </li>
    </ul>
    OK, let's try to change the session (command 10) to the ISO 14229
    standard "extendedDiagnosticSession" (value 03):<br>
    <br>
    <tt>V (2085712) canlog-monitor: 1596195821.642256 1T11 79B 02 10 03
      00 00 00 00 00</tt><tt><br>
    </tt><tt>
      V (2085722) canlog-monitor: 1596195821.659737 1R11 7BB 03 7f 10 12
      00 00 00 00</tt><br>
    <br>
    No luck. You can now begin trying all possible session codes. Or, in
    my case, I already know the device uses C0 ;-)<br>
    <br>
    <tt>V (2095662) canlog-monitor: 1596195831.598560 1T11 79B 02 10 c0
      00 00 00 00 00</tt><tt><br>
    </tt><tt>
      V (2095672) canlog-monitor: 1596195831.609308 1R11 7BB 02 50 c0 00
      00 00 00 00</tt><tt><br>
    </tt><tt>
    </tt><br>
    We're logged in -- nice! :-)<br>
    <br>
    Let's try the PID read again (do this within 60 seconds or the
    session will log out, unless you send a "tester present" frame):<br>
    <br>
    <tt>V (2530842) canlog-monitor: 1596196266.780867 1T11 79B 02 01 00
      00 00 00 00 00</tt><tt><br>
    </tt><tt>V (2530862) canlog-monitor: 1596196266.797961 1R11 7BB 03
      7f 01 11 00 00 00 00</tt><br>
    <br>
    Still no luck. So this tells you, the device does not support
    standard OBD-II PIDs. How about a UDS DTC request (19)?<br>
    <br>
    <tt>V (3034142) canlog-monitor: 1596196770.085839 1T11 79B 02 19 01
      ff 00 00 00 00</tt><tt><br>
    </tt><tt>V (3034162) canlog-monitor: 1596196770.103517 1R11 7BB 03
      7f 19 12 00 00 00 00</tt><br>
    <br>
    No luck. Let's try command 21 (read enhanced data by 8 bit PID) at
    PID 00 next:<br>
    <br>
    <tt>V (2737632) canlog-monitor: 1596196473.567437 1T11 79B 02 21 00
      00 00 00 00 00</tt><tt><br>
    </tt><tt>V (2737712) canlog-monitor: 1596196473.649927 1R11 7BB 03
      7f 21 12 00 00 00 00</tt><br>
    <br>
    Nope… maybe PID 01?<br>
    <br>
    <tt>V (2744182) canlog-monitor: 1596196480.120911 1T11 79B 02 21 01
      00 00 00 00 00</tt><tt><br>
    </tt><tt>V (2744262) canlog-monitor: 1596196480.203461 1R11 7BB 10
      34 61 01 13 88 13 83</tt><br>
    <br>
    Houston, we've got a response :-)<br>
    <br>
    You would now check if this response is a single or multi frame
    type, then try to get all data and then try to map the data to
    something you would expect to be stored in that device.<br>
    <br>
    For the standard UDF commands, you will need a copy of the ISO 14229
    standard.<br>
    <br>
    Regards,<br>
    Michael<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 31.07.20 um 12:57 schrieb Soko:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:7e8e8671-977b-7404-3e08-b3aed0cc99dd@soko.cc">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <p>@Chris: Thanks for taking care of the upgrade process for the
        new vehicle IDs</p>
      <p>@Mark: I will have a 1 hour session with VCDS today to find any
        other ECU/PIDs we can maybe use to see if the car is
        on/off/charging/etc. So maybe I find the ID of the gateway as
        well</p>
      <p>@Michael:<br>
        I had the ignition off because I wanted to see if there is
        anything I can query in that state. I've measured the voltages
        again with ignition on: No change besides pin 1 becoming +12V
        (as already mentioned @ wikipedia).<br>
        I've tried to find (via Google) any (e)Up, or even general-VW,
        specific pin schematics of the OBD connector... no luck. Maybe
        there are some special gateway commands to put a specific CAN
        directly to i.e. pin 3+11. But without getting hands on VW
        internal docs I don't see how to get this info with
        try&error.<br>
        I will give the CANopen scan a try.</p>
      <p>On how to to a range scan (700-7FF): A little bit of more input
        would be great. You can find my current class here:<br>
        <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://github.com/devmarxx/Open-Vehicle-Monitoring-System-3/blob/master/vehicle/OVMS.V3/components/vehicle_vweup/src/obd_eup.cpp"
          moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/devmarxx/Open-Vehicle-Monitoring-System-3/blob/master/vehicle/OVMS.V3/components/vehicle_vweup/src/obd_eup.cpp</a></p>
      <p>I thought of generating one entry for each of the txids
        (700-7FF) in the vwup_polls[] array. But how do I tell the
        poller to accept any respond Id? And which type and PID should I
        try?</p>
      <p>Imho the most promising approach is to log what VCDS is doing
        and which ECUs are in there and which PIDs each has. VCDS should
        know all possible ECUs+PIDs for the new eUp. It has the newest
        USB-interface and the software was just updated 2 weeks ago.</p>
      <p>Soko<br>
      </p>
      <br>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 31.07.2020 11:29, Michael Balzer
        wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite"
        cite="mid:678a545c-fecc-3404-b983-4891f6f96dfb@expeedo.de">
        <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
          charset=UTF-8">
        You can first try to scan the ID range 700 - 7FF, as all
        currently known e-Up devices are in that range.<br>
        <br>
        If you scan for unknown devices, you need to try different
        standard requests and check for responses on all CAN IDs, as
        ISO-TP allows devices to respond with arbitrary IDs.<br>
        <br>
        In case of no unknown OBD/ISO-TP responses you may also try
        doing a CANopen scan:<br>
        <a
href="https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/components/canopen/docs/Howto-detect-CANopen-nodes.html"
          moz-do-not-send="true">https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/components/canopen/docs/Howto-detect-CANopen-nodes.html</a><br>
        <br>
        …but chances are possibly low VW mixes ISO-TP with CANopen
        devices (Renault does).<br>
        <br>
        Regards,<br>
        Michael<br>
        <br>
        <br>
        <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 31.07.20 um 10:54 schrieb Mark
          Webb-Johnson:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote type="cite"
          cite="mid:B7E0F74A-92EA-4315-9F67-630029A20907@webb-johnson.net">
          <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
            charset=UTF-8">
          The other suggestion I have is to see if the gateway itself is
          alive for query. If you know the gateway ECU can bus
          arbitration ID (assuming you are not already doing that for
          polling). Perhaps it responds to a normal OBDII standard poll
          (for things like speed, etc), or a UDS style diagnostic query.
          <div class=""><br class="">
          </div>
          <div class="">Regards, Mark.<br class="">
            <div><br class="">
              <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                <div class="">On 31 Jul 2020, at 3:50 PM, Michael Balzer
                  <<a href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de" class=""
                    moz-do-not-send="true">dexter@expeedo.de</a>>
                  wrote:</div>
                <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                <div class="">
                  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
                    charset=UTF-8" class="">
                  <div class=""> Soko,<br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    you only had the door open, but not turned on the
                    car? If there are additional buses, they may be
                    switched off until the car is turned on…<br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    The OBD connector scheme is the general pin
                    assignment, I meant the specific VW e-Up schematics.
                    But if you don't see any voltages with the car
                    turned on, that's bad news.<br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    There may still be some command interface for the
                    OBD gateway to enable live data, but without any
                    info about the gateway, it will be hard to even find
                    out how to address it.<br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    Regards,<br class="">
                    Michael<br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 31.07.20 um 09:06
                      schrieb Soko:<br class="">
                    </div>
                    <blockquote type="cite"
                      cite="mid:d26bd0bc-4f57-d727-1b86-183c030fbbb3@soko.cc"
                      class="">
                      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
                        content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
                      <p class="">Hey guys,</p>
                      <p class="">If I did nothing wrong I have bad
                        news:</p>
                      <p class="">@Michael:<br class="">
                        With OBD port schematics I think you mean this <a
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics#OBD-II_diagnostic_connector"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics#OBD-II_diagnostic_connector</a><br
                          class="">
                        Specifically if there are some other pins used
                        than the standard CAN pins 6 and 14.<br class="">
                        So I had the drivers door open, no key in
                        ignition and measured the voltages of all pins
                        in relation to pin 5 (signal ground). There is
                        no voltage on any pin besides 2.5V on 6 and 14,
                        and 12V on 16 of course. So there are no hidden
                        CAN buses (or any other signals) afaict.</p>
                      <p class="">@Mark:<br class="">
                        Thanks for the hint with the can log. It's way
                        easier than RE Tools for just checking if there
                        is any traffic.<br class="">
                        Having said that... there is no traffic
                        whatsoever besides what I am polling and the
                        reply. Even when ignition is on I only see the
                        poll and the reply on the can log</p>
                      <p class="">So it seems devmarxx was right: The
                        gateway shields everything and there are even no
                        other hidden signals on the OBD port.</p>
                      <p class="">I'm happy to try any other ideas you
                        guys have. Just let me know!</p>
                      <p class="">Soko<br class="">
                      </p>
                      <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br class="">
                      </div>
                      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 31.07.2020 02:11,
                        Mark Webb-Johnson wrote:<br class="">
                      </div>
                      <blockquote type="cite"
                        cite="mid:9A478EA0-DC29-4367-A25D-9407EAEB2E8F@webb-johnson.net"
                        class="">
                        <meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
                          content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
                        If you are just looking for traffic on the CAN
                        bus, a simple can log would be the easiest.
                        Assuming you are on USB console, it is:
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border:
                          none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                          <div class="">OVMS# log level verbose
                            canlog-monitor</div>
                          <div class="">OVMS# can log start monitor crtd</div>
                        </blockquote>
                        <div class="">
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div class="">If you are using ssh, you need
                            to add a:</div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border:
                          none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                          <div class="">
                            <div class="">OVMS# log monitor yes</div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                        <div class="">
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div class="">To stop the logging:</div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border:
                          none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                          <div class="">
                            <div class="">OVMS# can log stop</div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                        <div class="">
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div class="">Documentation here:</div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border:
                          none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                          <div class="">
                            <div class=""><a
                                href="https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/crtd/can_logging.html"
                                class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/crtd/can_logging.html</a></div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                        <div class="">
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div class="">
                            <div class="">
                              <div class="">For my work, I personally
                                prefer this arrangement:</div>
                              <div class=""><br class="">
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 40px;
                              border: none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                              <div class="">OVMS# can log start
                                tcpserver transmit gvret-b :23</div>
                            </blockquote>
                            <div class="">
                              <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
                                class=""><br class="">
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
                              class="">And then I use <a
                                href="https://www.savvycan.com/"
                                class="" moz-do-not-send="true">SavvyCAN</a> on
                              a laptop to connect over wifi and work.</div>
                            <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
                              class=""><br class="">
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <div class="">Regarding the ‘re’ system, it is
                            a work-in-progress, and not currently
                            documented. It is still kind of a mess at
                            the moment (particularly for multiplexed
                            message IDs), as I continue to work on DBC
                            integration. That said, it is basically
                            functional.</div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <div class="">To start it:</div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border:
                          none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                          <div class="">
                            <div class="">OVMS# re start</div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                        <div class="">
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div class="">To stop it:</div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border:
                          none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                          <div class="">
                            <div class="">OVMS# re stop</div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                        <div class="">
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div class="">To see discovered IDs:</div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border:
                          none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                          <div class="">
                            <div class="">OVMS# re list</div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                        <div class="">
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div class="">It will (by default) listen on
                            all open CAN buses, and show you the
                            discovered ID, message count, interval (in
                            ms), and last message seen.</div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div class="">It has some rudimentary ability
                            to monitor active polling protocols with ‘re
                            obdii extended <min> <max>’ (or
                            standard), specifying the range of IDs used
                            by the ECUs.</div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <div class="">
                          <div class="">Regards, Mark</div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                            <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                              <div class="">On 30 Jul 2020, at 11:56 PM,
                                Soko <<a href="mailto:ovms@soko.cc"
                                  class="" moz-do-not-send="true">ovms@soko.cc</a>>
                                wrote:</div>
                              <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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                                <div class="">
                                  <p class="">@devmarxx: Is there any
                                    doc/guide on how to use this RE
                                    Tools?</p>
                                  <p class="">@Michael: Yeah, I know.
                                    You would have done my 1-day work in
                                    5 mins. I know C++ but I don't know
                                    the OVMS framework. But its like
                                    with any project: The issue is not
                                    the language, its the framework.</p>
                                  <p class="">Until you have yours you
                                    have to settle with me unfortunately
                                    ;)</p>
                                  <p class="">My cousin has a working
                                    VCDS HEX interface and I have an
                                    y-adapter so I can listen with an
                                    ELM327 adapter to the commands VCDS
                                    is sending. Maybe I can find any car
                                    status there. Device 09 is a good
                                    hint. <br class="">
                                  </p>
                                  <p class="">But as you said: I have
                                    still have to poll this, even if I
                                    find a status.</p>
                                  <p class="">I can't say (of course) if
                                    there's another CAN bus @ OBD port.
                                    All this CAN/OBD/Bus stuff is
                                    completely new to me.. ModBus
                                    RTU/TCP, MBus etc. I would know ;)</p>
                                  <p class="">So if you can point me in
                                    any direction what to try - or what
                                    you would do - I happy to dig into
                                    it.</p>
                                  <p class="">Soko</p>
                                  <p class="">PS: Any idea when you'll
                                    get your Mii?<br class="">
                                  </p>
                                  <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On
                                    30.07.2020 17:14, Michael Balzer
                                    wrote:<br class="">
                                  </div>
                                  <blockquote type="cite"
                                    cite="mid:193a06ae-81aa-52a0-047e-6bde5107dbdc@expeedo.de"
                                    class="">
                                    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
                                      content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"
                                      class="">
                                    If only I had my Mii already…<br
                                      class="">
                                    <br class="">
                                    If the OBD port is shielded from the
                                    CAN traffic, you need to poll some
                                    device. ECU = Engine Control Unit =
                                    device 01.<br class="">
                                    <br class="">
                                    I would suspect the basic car status
                                    info to be available from device 09
                                    (central electrics), but it seems no
                                    PIDs have been RE'd from there yet.
                                    So maybe you need to derive the info
                                    from some other mode/status
                                    register.<br class="">
                                    <br class="">
                                    It's bad needing to continuosly poll
                                    to get the live status data. Is
                                    possibly another, unfiltered CAN bus
                                    available at the OBD port?<br
                                      class="">
                                    <br class="">
                                    Regards,<br class="">
                                    Michael<br class="">
                                    <br class="">
                                    <br class="">
                                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
                                      30.07.20 um 16:43 schrieb Soko:<br
                                        class="">
                                    </div>
                                    <blockquote type="cite"
                                      cite="mid:c46c65de-ae20-f2db-4c2b-052843756691@soko.cc"
                                      class="">
                                      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
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                                      <p class="">Ahhh OK, I've found
                                        OvmsVehicle::virtual void
                                        TickerXXX(uint32_t ticker);<br
                                          class="">
                                        Got it! This was exactly my
                                        issue as I didn't know about any
                                        function which gets called
                                        regularly so I could check
                                        something like this...<br
                                          class="">
                                        It's not an ideal situation
                                        though: I just can slow down the
                                        poll after my fail-counter gets
                                        too high as I need to check when
                                        the car gets powered again. So
                                        all I can do is polling, lets
                                        say every 60 secs when the car
                                        is off, and increase it once its
                                        on. But there is now way around
                                        this 60-sec polling if the only
                                        thing I can do is poll :(<br
                                          class="">
                                      </p>
                                      <p class="">Afaik there is only
                                        the sharkcow's list below,
                                        reverse engineered by him from
                                        ODBeleven.</p>
                                      <p class="">(dev)marxx exlpained
                                        to me: There is a gateway
                                        between the CAN-Buses and the
                                        OBD Connector in all VW-AG
                                        vehicles which only replies to
                                        polls and also acts as security
                                        gateway if you want to write to
                                        the buses.</p>
                                      <p class="">So I think I cannot
                                        really do a can log or use re
                                        tool as the OBD interface stays
                                        quiet if I'm not polling it...</p>
                                      <p class="">And as there is no
                                        other vehicle from
                                        VW,Seat,Skoda,Audi,etc. in OVMS.
                                        So I have no cheat-sheet :(</p>
                                      <p class="">Anyhow... I would need
                                        to poll one ECU (is this the
                                        correct therm?) which doesn't
                                        shuts down... or maybe the issue
                                        is the OBD-gateway shutting
                                        down.<br class="">
                                      </p>
                                      <p class="">What do you think?</p>
                                      <p class="">Soko<br class="">
                                      </p>
                                      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On
                                        30.07.2020 16:17, Michael Balzer
                                        wrote:<br class="">
                                      </div>
                                      <blockquote type="cite"
                                        cite="mid:429f9711-74bd-828c-0c9c-3872f9b0bfac@expeedo.de"
                                        class="">
                                        <meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
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                                        Soko,<br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        nice progress :-)<br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        If you can't detect vehicle
                                        state by listening to regular
                                        status CAN frames, you can check
                                        the time since the last poll
                                        reply in the per second ticker.<br
                                          class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        As poll replies normally come in
                                        fast, you should be able to
                                        detect a switch-off by a small
                                        timeout, say 3 seconds… probably
                                        need to add a counter, as a
                                        single poll may get lost /
                                        ignored.<br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        CAN tx errors can be caused by
                                        other issues as well, so should
                                        generally not be interpreted
                                        that way.<br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        But… are you sure there are no
                                        status frames on the bus? Have
                                        you done a can log or tried the
                                        re tool?<br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        Regards,<br class="">
                                        Michael<br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
                                          30.07.20 um 14:43 schrieb
                                          Soko:<br class="">
                                        </div>
                                        <blockquote type="cite"
                                          cite="mid:dfef03ed-b0e1-1fda-7eab-de5b6e49cc67@soko.cc"
                                          class="">Hi guys, <br
                                            class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          Want to report success on
                                          connecting and reading my VW
                                          e-Up via OBD cable using the
                                          Poller. As you can see in the
                                          screenshot of the log attached
                                          I get an IncomingPollReply(..)
                                          call and an SoC value of
                                          33.333% <br class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          Once I turn of the ignition
                                          and lock the car though I
                                          don't get any replies no more
                                          (line D 793813) and then I get
                                          can1 errors... I'm polling
                                          with 10 seconds intervall. <br
                                            class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          I know that this is as it
                                          should be... but my issue is:
                                          I don't have any way to know
                                          if the ignition is on, the key
                                          is in, the car is running, the
                                          car is charging as the PIDs
                                          are not known for such values
                                          (afaik by the lists of
                                          sharkcow <a
                                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.goingelectric.de/wiki/Liste-der-OBD2-Codes/"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.goingelectric.de/wiki/Liste-der-OBD2-Codes/</a>).
                                          <br class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          So what would be the best
                                          approach to change the
                                          different polling states? Can
                                          I somehow get called (in my
                                          vehicle-class) if an can-error
                                          is thrown? Then I would
                                          increase the poll frequency. <br
                                            class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          Any suggestions? <br class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          thanks <br class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          Soko <br class="">
                                          <br class="">
                                          <br class="">
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                                        <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
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