<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div>Greg,</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Your three points understanding seems correct. However, I am not aware of any roadsters where the 12v accessory port is always on - it should not be.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>I would disagree that most roadster owners define ‘awake’ as ‘accessory’ (the first key position). The power to 12v accessories in roadster is not related to the key at all.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>I also agree that the v.e.awake metric, as used by other cars, would probably be better named v.e.accessory - as that seems to be what it is tracking (the accessory key switch). However, I’m not overly concerned about it. We have much bigger issues to deal with. I’m happy either way. It just seemed easier to add a metric for aux12v, and not have to change everything else.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Regards, Mark.</div><div><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 18 Feb 2020, at 8:43 AM, Greg D. <<a href="mailto:gregd2350@gmail.com" class="">gregd2350@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
  
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  <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
    Hi Mark,<br class="">
    <br class="">
    Forgive me, but I'm not quite ready to let this one go.  Please help
    me untangle some of this in my mind.  <br class="">
    <br class="">
    The issue comes down to what we want to do with Awake and On, and
    how and when the metrics get updated.  So this is not just a car
    thing, but a car and phone app thing.<br class="">
    <br class="">
    <b class="">Foundational concepts.</b><br class="">
    <b class="">1.  </b>One source of my confusion is certainly that there are a
    lot of ways EVs do the whole "ignition" thing.  But I think we can
    break the population into two camps.  Those with physical keys, and
    those without.  The key difference (pardon the pun) is that the
    state of physical key cannot be changed without moving the physical
    key, i.e. it cannot be changed remotely.  To fake this, I expect,
    would open up a bunch of inconsistency issues depending on how the
    car is wired, potentially confusing the car itself.  That could be
    bad.  Cars without physical keys might have similar issues linking
    back to unauthenticated access, but I presume that the OVMSv3 could
    be considered a proxy once given the proper credentials.  This would
    be similar to the Tesla phone app having the ability to control the
    car once paired and authenticated with it.<br class="">
    <br class="">
    <b class="">2.  </b>The Roadster has a physical key.  In common usage (what
    Roadster owners as a community call them), the car is in one of 4
    states.  Asleep, awake, Accessory, and On.  Asleep and awake are
    controlled by the car, Accessory and On by the driver via the
    physical key.  The car, when Awake, is running the little pump, and
    is generally conscious from a CAN bus perspective, but the dashboard
    lights, cabin fan, radio, and such are unpowered.  Similar to a
    traditional ICE, the Accessory key position turns on the dash
    lights, fan, heat, seat warmers, radio, etc., and the car can be
    driven when the key is moved to On.  Unlike most traditional ICEs,
    the Roadster's 12v accessory port is powered when the car becomes
    Awake, while most cars only power it when in Accessory or On.  I say
    "most" because I vaguely recall a car some years ago where the 12v
    port was always powered.  I forget what the car was, but the point
    is that it's perhaps rare, but not impossible.  <br class="">
    <br class="">
    <b class="">3.  </b>Metrics.  The car needs to be conscious in order for its
    state to be read and understood by the OVMSv3 module.  In common
    Roadster terms, that means the car has to be awake, but not
    necessarily On.  Some metrics, TPMS for example, don't go live until
    the car is driven, but those are exceptions.  The OVMS phone app can
    display the metrics, but as expected, it needs the car to be awake
    to do so.  So, there is a command that the OVMS app can send to the
    OVMS module to "Wake up the car".  This takes the car out of its
    slumber, turning on the internal power systems that run the various
    components, including the little pump on the Roadster.  Metrics go
    live, captured by the OVMSv3 module, sent to the server, and on to
    the phone app for display.  It does not (can not) move the physical
    key to Accessory, so cannot turn on the dash lights, fan, radio,
    etc.  <br class="">
    <br class="">
    I believe all of the 1, 2, & 3 above is correct.  Yes?<br class="">
    <br class="">
    <b class="">What I don't know</b><br class="">
    I do not have OVMS experience with any EV other than the Roadster. 
    We (some historic "we") have defined OVMS "Awake" as what is
    commonly called "Accessory" on traditional cars.  It's the first key
    position.  This is where my brain says "Huh?", and I need some
    help.  When you call up the App and issue its "wake up the car"
    command, do we expect that an EV will generally turn on the dash
    lights, cabin fan, and radio?  <i class="">Do any of the EVs respond in this
      way?</i>  If not, then we have not correctly defined what Awake
    is.<br class="">
    <br class="">
    <b class="">Proposal</b><br class="">
    I should probably stop this missive here, and await clarification on
    what I don't know, but will discuss where I think it will go next. 
    The following is a draft...  <br class="">
    <br class="">
    Assuming that "Wake up the car" does not turn on the dash, fan, and
    radio in most EVs, we need to change some definitions.  If so, I
    think the Roadster's four commonly accepted definitions are, in
    fact, the correct ones.  The Wake up the car command should set the
    Awake metric and put the car in a state where live metrics can be
    obtained.  Turning the key to Accessory (or the equivalent with a
    non-key vehicle where the dash comes on) should set an Accessory
    metric (new), instead of On, and turning the key to On (or the
    equivalent where the car can be driven) should set the On metric.  <br class="">
    <br class="">
    The charging of the 12v battery appears to be important, but will
    depend on the car's architecture.  It does not necessarily map to
    one of the 4 states.  My Roadster's 12v battery, for example,
    appears to be float-charged continuously (I've measured it).  Using
    the existing high and low voltage alerts may be more important than
    simply knowing the battery is being charged, but I will leave that
    for owners of those cars to determine.<br class="">
    <br class="">
    If a car doesn't have a state where the dash, radio, etc. are on,
    but the car is not drivable, then the Accessory state may not be
    used independently.  For those cars, Accessory and On would be
    linked.<br class="">
    <br class="">
    If for some reason the Wake up the car action does turn on the dash
    lights, fan, radio, etc., then those cars should link Awake and
    Accessory.  Going further, if Wake up the car actually allows it to
    be driven (yikes!), then all three metrics (awake, accessory, on)
    should be set.<br class="">
    <br class="">
    So, thoughts?  The bottom line is that we currently do not have a
    consistent set of definitions and common usage, particularly with
    the Roadster which oddly was one of (if not the) first cars
    supported.<br class="">
    <br class="">
    Thanks,<br class="">
    <br class="">
    Greg<br class="">
    <br class="">
    <br class="">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Mark Webb-Johnson wrote:<br class="">
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:113C975A-517A-400F-9C33-C8834CECD6C5@webb-johnson.net" class="">
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      Greg,
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">The problem is that your and my understanding of
        what ‘awake’ means is not the same as the OVMS definition of
        v.e.awake. Looking at <a href="https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/userguide/metrics.html" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/userguide/metrics.html</a> we
        can see:</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">
        <ul class="MailOutline">
          <li class="">v.e.awake<br class="">
            yes = Vehicle/bus awake (switched on)<br class="">
            ie; my state #3 (Ignition on to the first stop)<br class="">
            <br class="">
          </li>
          <li class="">v.e.on<br class="">
            yes = “Ignition” state (drivable)<br class="">
            ie; my state #4 (Ignition on all the way)<br class="">
            <br class="">
          </li>
          <li class="">and the new v.e.aux12v<br class="">
            yes = Auxiliary 12v system is on</li>
        </ul>
      </div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">While we can say that ‘awake’ means the coolant pump
        is running, and a side effect is the 12v auxiliary power in the
        cabin is on; in reality it is the other way round - this thing
        we think of as ‘awake’ is really the state of the auxiliary 12v
        power which the coolant pump runs off. Note that neither ‘awake’
        not ‘aux12v’ metrics are shown on the Apps - they are purely an
        internal representation.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">The only thing that matters to the App (ie; user) is
        the temperatures. Those sensors seem powered by the same
        auxiliary 12v system, so when that is off those go stale. That
        seems currently to be implemented correctly (in latest edge
        firmware). If the car is sleeping (aux12v is off), the
        temperature sensors are not updated, go stale, and appear as
        gray in the App. If you tap on ‘wakeup’ in the App, the aux12v
        comes on, temperature sensors get power, and the App shows the
        temperatures in real time (white, not gray) immediately.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">The choices we had were:</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">
        <ol class="MailOutline">
          <li class="">Change the definition of ‘v.e.awake’ (which has
            been there for years) to mean aux12v power, introduce a new
            sensor for state #3 (to mean ignition on, but car not
            started), and then change all the other vehicle modules +
            notification code to conform to this.<br class="">
            <br class="">
            or<br class="">
            <br class="">
          </li>
          <li class="">Add a new metric ‘v.e.aux12v’ to properly track
            the 12v auxiliary power.</li>
        </ol>
      </div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">We chose #2 as it just seems easier and better
        tracks what is actually happening in the car. The only issue in
        the Tesla Roadster is we don’t know how to tell the difference
        between states #3 and #4, so we just set v.e.awake and v.e.on at
        the same time now (to track the ignition on). Perhaps we can go
        looking to try to find that on the CAN bus, but I don’t think of
        it as that important (also difficult for me because I don’t have
        the car any more). If somebody can get three CRTD can bus dumps
        from a roadster for a) with the ignition off, b) with ignition
        to the first stop, and c) with ignition fully on, I can look at
        it to see what I can find.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Bottom line is that the states for Roadster are now:</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">
        <ul class="MailOutline">
          <li class="">Car asleep. v.e.awake=off, v.e.on=off,
            v.e.aux12v=off.</li>
          <li class="">The charge port or door handle is opened (or
            vehicle woken up from the app). v.e.awake=off, v.e.on=off,
            v.e.aux12v=on.</li>
          <li class="">The ignition is turned on. v.e.awake=on,
            v.e.on=on, v.e.aux12v=on.</li>
        </ul>
      </div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">I think that will also work for the Tesla Model S, X
        and 3 (which have the same power states). Note that modern Tesla
        cars don’t have ignition switches, and don’t have any difference
        between states #3 and #4.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Regards, Mark.<br class="">
        <div class=""><br class="">
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">On 10 Feb 2020, at 2:08 AM, Greg D. <<a href="mailto:gregd2350@gmail.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gregd2350@gmail.com</a>>
              wrote:</div>
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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              <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""> Hi Mark,
                Michael,<br class="">
                <br class="">
                Mmmm, not sure this is right.  The states you outline
                are exactly what I would expect, and what I am seeing
                with my car:  Awake corresponds to the car running the
                little pump, lighting the charge ring if the door is
                open, etc.  The On state properly corresponds to the
                turning of the key.  All that is fine as is.  That it
                also powers the 12v Accessory port on the dash is a bit
                odd, but I think we can ignore that for these purposes. 
                It's just one of this magical little car's quirks.  <br class="">
                <br class="">
                So, all was fine.  I can't test the Idling message
                without going for a long drive, but the triggering of
                vehicle.on events does work (follows the key), so I
                guess that's progress.  Cosmetically, we have addressed
                the issues, but the collateral damage?  I did the
                update, and the change sort of breaks the app Wake up
                the car.  Waking it doesn't change the state of Awake,
                though the car does wake up (in the old definition) as
                before.  I don't think we're really at root cause, so
                the fixes are unraveling other things.<br class="">
                <br class="">
                What I was thinking explains both of my issues - the
                Idling message, and the triggering of vehicle.on events
                - is that both of those appear to be qualified by Awake
                instead of On.  That, I think, is the root cause.  That
                the vehicle.on event follows the key (as it should) is
                because we've changed the definition on Awake, not the
                use of On as the trigger for vehicle.on.  I am using
                vehicle.on, not vehicle.awake, for a reason. 
                Vehicle.awake should follow the little pump and its
                friends, not the key.  Vehicle.on and vehicle.off should
                follow the key.  vehicle.off is (and has been) fine. 
                Vehicle.on isn't tied to On as it should.<br class="">
                <br class="">
                Having the Aux12v metric is fine by itself, I suppose,
                and may be useful for other cars that have their own
                quirks.  But the common definition of Awake for the
                Roadster was properly implemented before this change. 
                That the Roadster powers the Aux12v outlet when the car
                is Awake instead of following the key to On isn't
                relevant to the definition of Awake.<br class="">
                <br class="">
                Greg<br class="">
                <br class="">
                <br class="">
                <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Mark Webb-Johnson wrote:<br class="">
                </div>
                <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:02E4D449-32CA-418E-A8A4-BCB01B4CBBF6@webb-johnson.net" class="">
                  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
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                  OK. This is in 3.2.010-6-gac7c26d.
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">@Greg can you try this one (OTA) and let
                    me know if you see any more of these alerts.</div>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">Regards, Mark.<br class="">
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                      <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                        <div class="">On 9 Feb 2020, at 5:50 PM, Michael
                          Balzer <<a href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">dexter@expeedo.de</a>>
                          wrote:</div>
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                        <div class="">
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                          <div class=""> Yes, sounds good to me.<br class="">
                            <br class="">
                            Regards,<br class="">
                            Michael<br class="">
                            <br class="">
                            <br class="">
                            <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 09.02.20 um
                              09:53 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:<br class="">
                            </div>
                            <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:0C5F9CD4-AC22-4373-96EC-6C64787DE17F@webb-johnson.net" class="">
                              <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
                              <div class="">The Tesla Roadster transmits
                                it’s sleep/awake status:</div>
                              <div class=""><br class="">
                              </div>
                              <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px;
                                border: none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                                <div class="">ID 0x100 B1=0x96</div>
                              </blockquote>
                              <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px;
                                border: none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                                <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px;
                                  border: none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                                  <div class="">B4=doors3</div>
                                </blockquote>
                              </blockquote>
                              <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px;
                                border: none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                                <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px;
                                  border: none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                                  <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px;
                                    border: none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                                    <div class="">bit1 = awake/asleep
                                      (awake=1 / asleep=0)</div>
                                  </blockquote>
                                </blockquote>
                              </blockquote>
                              <div class=""><br class="">
                              </div>
                              <div class="">In the v2 code, we simply
                                sent this as doors3 value (in the ‘D’
                                protocol message).</div>
                              <div class=""><br class="">
                              </div>
                              <div class="">The v3 code has this as:</div>
                              <div class=""><br class="">
                              </div>
                              <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px;
                                border: none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                                <div class="">
                                  <div class="">case 0x96: // Doors /
                                    Charging yes/no</div>
                                  <div class="">  {</div>
                                  <div class="">  m_awake = d[3] &
                                    0x01;</div>
                                </div>
                              </blockquote>
                              <div class="">
                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                                <div class="">Which was wrong (bit #0).
                                  I fixed it in recent commit
                                  39cdb7e19e5a3b88ab7217a9adb0cb6008278ab1
                                  to 'm_awake = d[3] & 0x02’ (bit
                                  #1), and that now correctly tracks the
                                  vehicle state. This was to address bug
                                  'Tesla Roadster: Vehicle AWAKE metric
                                  not correct #328’.</div>
                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                                <div class="">Over the years, it seems
                                  that the meaning of doors3 has
                                  changed. It originally just specified
                                  bit #1, but now the protocol
                                  specifies:</div>
                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px;
                                border: none; padding: 0px;" class="">
                                <div class="">
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div class="page" title="Page 11">
                                      <div class="layoutArea">
                                        <div class="column">
                                          <ul style="list-style-type:
                                            none" class="">
                                            <li class=""><p class=""><span style="color: rgb(0,
                                                  0, 10); font-style:
                                                  normal; font-size:
                                                  14px;" class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono">Door
                                                    state #3 </font></span></p><p class=""><span style="color: rgb(0,
                                                  0, 10); font-style:
                                                  normal; font-size:
                                                  14px;" class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono">bit0
                                                    = Car awake (turned
                                                    on=1 / off=0)<br class="">
                                                    bit1 = Cooling pump
                                                    (on=1/off=0)<br class="">
                                                    bit6 = 1=Logged into
                                                    motor controller<br class="">
                                                    bit7 = 1=Motor
                                                    controller in
                                                    configuration mode</font></span><span style="font-size:
                                                  12.000000pt;
                                                  font-family:
                                                  'ArialMT'; color:
                                                  rgb(0.000000%,
                                                  0.000000%, 3.921000%)" class=""> </span></p>
                                            </li>
                                          </ul>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </blockquote>
                              <div class="">
                                <div class="">The Tesla Roadster code in
                                  v2 never adhered to that, and just set
                                  doors3 to whatever it saw on the bus.
                                  However, I’ve never seen values other
                                  than 0x00 or 0x02 on that byte.
                                  Certainly, no known value for bit#0
                                  (car turned on). I guess this is where
                                  the confusion from the conversion v2
                                  -> v3 came from (the protocol
                                  document saying ‘awake’ in bit#0, vs
                                  cooling pump in bit #1). Tesla
                                  Roadster users know the cooling pump
                                  as ‘awake/sleep’.</div>
                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                                <div class="">So, where are we now? A
                                  general car can be defined as at least
                                  these states:</div>
                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                                <div class="">
                                  <ol class="MailOutline">
                                    <li class="">Ignition off, asleep,
                                      consuming as little power as
                                      possible</li>
                                    <li class="">Ignition off, awake,
                                      with some systems using power</li>
                                    <li class="">Ignition on to the
                                      first stop (just some systems on,
                                      but car not started)</li>
                                    <li class="">Ignition on all the way
                                      (engine running or starting)</li>
                                    <li class="">Ignition past on all
                                      the way (turning the engine
                                      starter motor)</li>
                                  </ol>
                                </div>
                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                                <div class="">We can ignore #5 for
                                  electric cars.</div>
                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                                <div class="">In v3, we have these
                                  metrics:</div>
                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                                <div class="">
                                  <ul class="MailOutline">
                                    <li class="">v.e.awake</li>
                                    <li class="">v.e.on</li>
                                    <li class="">v.e.charging12v</li>
                                  </ul>
                                </div>
                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                                <div class="">I assumed that v.e.awake
                                  corresponds to state #2, and v.e.on to
                                  states #3 and/or #4.</div>
                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                                <div class="">The v.e.charging12v
                                  doesn’t really work for the Roadster.
                                  The cooling pump is not related to the
                                  little 12v battery charging system.</div>
                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                                <div class="">I guess I could add a
                                  standard metric ‘v.e.aux12v’ to
                                  indicate the auxiliary 12v system is
                                  on (and then set v.e.awake and v.e.ok
                                  corresponding to the ignition switch).
                                  Is that acceptable?</div>
                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                                <div class="">Regards, Mark.</div>
                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                                <div class="">
                                  <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                                    <div class="">On 8 Feb 2020, at 5:46
                                      AM, Greg D. <<a href="mailto:gregd2350@gmail.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gregd2350@gmail.com</a>>
                                      wrote:</div>
                                    <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                                    <div class="">
                                      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
                                        charset=UTF-8" class="">
                                      <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""> Hi
                                        Michael, Mark,<br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        Ok, very interesting that this
                                        is an old feature.  I only just
                                        started seeing the message very
                                        recently.  What changed?<br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        As to "Awake" vs "On" vs
                                        "Ignited", they are definitely
                                        different.  I am seeing the
                                        correct state reflected in
                                        v.e.awake and v.e.on.  Simply
                                        opening the car door when the
                                        car is asleep will wake it up
                                        (v.e.awake turns to yes), and
                                        inserting the key and moving it
                                        to the "Accessory" position
                                        (first notch) moves the state to
                                        "On" (both metrics are "yes"). 
                                        Note that the car is not On
                                        (drivable) until the key is
                                        moved one notch farther; I'm
                                        presuming that's "Ignited" in
                                        your terminology.  <br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        But something has changed.  I
                                        have an event script tied to
                                        vehicle.on which activates
                                        ext12v power to enable a HUD or
                                        similar (*).  Simply awakening
                                        the car triggers the script, a
                                        behavior I believe is new, and
                                        incorrect.  The script should
                                        get activated only when the key
                                        is moved to Accessory (your "On"
                                        state).  When the car goes
                                        directly back to sleep after a
                                        few minutes, the vehicle.off
                                        script correctly does not
                                        trigger.  Turning the car to
                                        Accessory, then Off (removing
                                        the key), does correctly trigger
                                        the vehicle.off script, even
                                        though the car is still Awake at
                                        the time.<br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        So what I think is happening
                                        with the "Vehicle is idling"
                                        message is that it's a side
                                        effect of some logic change to
                                        what "on" is, that it's being
                                        sensed and triggered by "Awake"
                                        instead of "On".  The car is
                                        definitely Awake during
                                        charging, but it is not On.  And
                                        not being On, the Idle message
                                        shouldn't be triggered, nor
                                        should my HUD be turned on.<br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        What changed?<br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        Greg<br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        (*)  Actually, the script does a
                                        bit more, to work around the
                                        CAN3 bus hangs:<br class="">
                                        <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
                                          charset=UTF-8" class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        <tt class="">power ext12v off</tt><tt class=""><br class="">
                                        </tt><tt class="">obdii ecu stop</tt><tt class=""><br class="">
                                        </tt><tt class="">obdii ecu
                                          start can3</tt><tt class=""><br class="">
                                        </tt><tt class="">power ext12v
                                          on</tt><br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Michael
                                          Balzer wrote:<br class="">
                                        </div>
                                        <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:39ff043f-34e9-4f28-29cb-4d24ce43a65c@expeedo.de" class="">
                                          <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
                                            charset=UTF-8" class="">
                                          <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Greg,
                                            Mark,<br class="">
                                            <br class="">
                                            that's actually a very old
                                            feature originating from V2.
                                            It's meant to alert about a
                                            car left turned on, which is
                                            both a potential security
                                            issue (key is plugged) and a
                                            potential fire/explosion
                                            threat on vehicles that may
                                            overcharge the 12V battery
                                            from the DC/DC converter.
                                            It's also main battery
                                            drainage.<br class="">
                                            <br class="">
                                            This also needs to trigger
                                            during charging, but of
                                            course not if the vehicle
                                            wakes itself for some
                                            internal checks or OTA
                                            updates / whatever.<br class="">
                                            <br class="">
                                            This was/is using the
                                            definition of "awake" as
                                            "turned on", and "on" as
                                            "ignited". It seems all cars
                                            except the roadster follow
                                            this scheme now, so maybe we
                                            should separate the
                                            "maintenance awake" state?<br class="">
                                            <br class="">
                                            Regards,<br class="">
                                            Michael<br class="">
                                            <br class="">
                                            <br class="">
                                            Am 07.02.20 um 08:43 schrieb
                                            Mark Webb-Johnson:<br class="">
                                          </div>
                                          <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:2E9FB03E-E1F9-4471-85DC-3530F197795B@webb-johnson.net" class="">
                                            <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
                                              charset=UTF-8" class="">
                                            Greg,
                                            <div class=""><br class="">
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="">That would be
                                              the system thinking the
                                              vehicle is asleep, but
                                              speed > 0.</div>
                                            <div class=""><br class="">
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="">I did fix the
                                              roadster awake/sleep flag
                                              (which was not being set
                                              correctly before), so most
                                              likely this is something
                                              new.</div>
                                            <div class=""><br class="">
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="">The logic is
                                              in VehicleTicker1() in
                                              vehicle.cpp. It is:</div>
                                            <div class=""><br class="">
                                            </div>
                                            <blockquote style="margin: 0
                                              0 0 40px; border: none;
                                              padding: 0px;" class="">
                                              <div class="">
                                                <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style:
                                                      normal; font-size:
                                                      14px;" class="">//
                                                      Idle alert:</span></font></div>
                                                <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style:
                                                      normal; font-size:
                                                      14px;" class="">if
(!StdMetrics.ms_v_env_awake->AsBool() ||
                                                      StdMetrics.ms_v_pos_speed->AsFloat()
                                                      > 0)</span></font></div>
                                                <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style:
                                                      normal; font-size:
                                                      14px;" class=""> 
                                                      {</span></font></div>
                                                <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style:
                                                      normal; font-size:
                                                      14px;" class=""> 
                                                      m_idle_ticker = 15
                                                      * 60; // first
                                                      alert after 15
                                                      minutes</span></font></div>
                                                <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style:
                                                      normal; font-size:
                                                      14px;" class=""> 
                                                      }</span></font></div>
                                                <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style:
                                                      normal; font-size:
                                                      14px;" class="">else
                                                      if (m_idle_ticker
                                                      > 0 &&
                                                      --m_idle_ticker ==
                                                      0)</span></font></div>
                                                <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style:
                                                      normal; font-size:
                                                      14px;" class=""> 
                                                      {</span></font></div>
                                                <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style:
                                                      normal; font-size:
                                                      14px;" class=""> 
NotifyVehicleIdling();</span></font></div>
                                                <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style:
                                                      normal; font-size:
                                                      14px;" class=""> 
                                                      m_idle_ticker = 60
                                                      * 60; //
                                                      successive alerts
                                                      every 60 minutes</span></font></div>
                                                <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style:
                                                      normal; font-size:
                                                      14px;" class=""> 
                                                      }</span></font></div>
                                              </div>
                                            </blockquote>
                                            <div class="">
                                              <div class=""><br class="">
                                              </div>
                                              <div class="">So, that
                                                resets the fifteen
                                                minute timer whenever
                                                the vehicle is either
                                                asleep OR speed>0
                                                (driving). Otherwise the
                                                timer counts down, and
                                                after 15 minutes the
                                                alert is raised (and
                                                every 60 minutes
                                                thereafter until either
                                                the vehicle goes to
                                                sleep or speed>0).</div>
                                              <div class=""><br class="">
                                              </div>
                                              <div class="">For
                                                roadster, that work
                                                work. The car can
                                                ‘awake’ itself for
                                                charging,etc.</div>
                                              <div class=""><br class="">
                                              </div>
                                              <div class="">I am not
                                                really sure why we are
                                                using ms_v_env_awake in
                                                the first place here.
                                                Why do we care if the
                                                vehicle is awake or not?
                                                Surely we should be
                                                looking at ms_v_env_on
                                                (ie; vehicle switched
                                                on)? But for JDEMO users
                                                that would cause a
                                                problem (as for they
                                                have to leave the
                                                vehicle ignition on
                                                while charging).</div>
                                              <div class=""><br class="">
                                              </div>
                                              <div class="">Maybe
                                                simplest to disable this
                                                alert for Roadster,
                                                unless someone else has
                                                any better ideas. In any
                                                case, we need to think
                                                about using
                                                ms_v_env_awake vs
                                                ms_v_env_on.</div>
                                              <div class=""><br class="">
                                              </div>
                                              <div class="">Regards,
                                                Mark.</div>
                                              <div class=""><br class="">
                                              </div>
                                              <div class="">
                                                <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                                                  <div class="">On 7 Feb
                                                    2020, at 2:22 AM,
                                                    Greg D. <<a href="mailto:gregd2350@gmail.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gregd2350@gmail.com</a>>
                                                    wrote:</div>
                                                  <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                                                  <div class="">
                                                    <div class="">Hi
                                                      folks,<br class="">
                                                      <br class="">
                                                      I'm starting to
                                                      get an alert
                                                      "Vehicle is idling
                                                      / stopped turned
                                                      on"<br class="">
                                                      when my Roadster
                                                      is charging.
                                                       Seems to occur
                                                      every hour.<br class="">
                                                      <br class="">
                                                      Is this something
                                                      new with OVMSv3,
                                                      or did something
                                                      change / break on
                                                      my<br class="">
                                                      car?<br class="">
                                                      <br class="">
                                                      Greg<br class="">
                                                      <br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
                                                      OvmsDev mailing
                                                      list<br class="">
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                                          <pre class="moz-signature" cols="144">-- 
Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal
Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
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                              <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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                            <br class="">
                            <pre class="moz-signature" cols="160">-- 
Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal
Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
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