<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Yep, that makes sense to me.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The alternative would be one single enumerated metric to reflect all the possible states. Something like:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><ol class="MailOutline"><li class="">off</li><li class="">deepsleep</li><li class="">lightsleep</li><li class="">awake</li><li class="">accessory</li><li class="">starting</li><li class="">on</li></ol><div><br class=""></div><div>I’m ok either way. But really depends on how the other vehicle types fit into the model.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Regards, Mark.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 18 Feb 2020, at 12:12 PM, Greg D. <<a href="mailto:gregd2350@gmail.com" class="">gregd2350@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
  
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    Hi Mark,<br class="">
    <br class="">
    Ok, getting closer.  I understand that this is potentially a
    wide-ranging thing to clean up, and we do have higher priority
    things to address, but I do want to set the right direction.<br class="">
    <br class="">
    ------------------<br class="">
    TL; DR summary:  (Should have this in my earlier email)<br class="">
    <br class="">
    v.e.awake<br class="">
     - No means car is in a power saving state; busses are inactive,
    dash lights and interfaces are off.  Any metrics are stale.<br class="">
     - Yes means the busses are active, and metrics derived from them
    are valid.  Car is awake, but user interfaces (dash buttons, lights,
    radio, etc.) are not active.  The transition between No and  Yes is
    controlled by the car, indirectly from some user action (e.g.
    opening a door) or by time (going to sleep after no activity). 
    Success of the OVMS application's "Wake up car" command should be
    reflected in this metric when the car wakes up.<br class="">
    <br class="">
    v.e.accessory<br class="">
     - Yes means that the car dash user interfaces, radio, etc. are
    active, but the car is not drivable.  Historically this corresponds
    to the key being turned to the first (Accessory) position.<br class="">
    <br class="">
    v.e.on<br class="">
     - Yes means that the car is fully on (contactor engaged), and
    drivable (can be put into drive or reverse).  Historically this
    corresponds to the key being turned to the second position.<br class="">
    <br class="">
    -------------------<br class="">
    <br class="">
    <br class="">
    To clarify, when I was referring to a car that kept the 12v
    accessory plug on, it wasn't the Roadster.  It was some old thing I
    had, I think in college, or maybe it was a friend's or a family car
    from earlier.  Back then, the outlet was for the cigarette lighter. 
    Gotta have those things powered, just in case you need a smoke...<br class="">
    <br class="">
    And, no, I guess I wasn't clear.  Roadster owners define Awake as
    when the car first "wakes up" after being asleep, for example when
    you open a door.  As you earlier noted, this is when the APS turns
    on.  The first key position is still Accessory, both in common usage
    and in the Tesla Roadster user manual, page 40.  The 12v accessory
    outlet power is related to being awake, not the key position, but
    that is effectively accidental in terms of the metrics.  The
    "original" code (going back some months) was in my definition
    correct, in that the Awake metric was set when you opened the door
    and the car woke up.  The problem I reported was that it was
    triggering vehicle.on events.  The fix to make Awake not be set when
    the car woke up kind of made things better, but also more
    inconsistent.  A new v.e.accessory metric should be associated with
    the key, not the APS.  Today that Accessory key position on the
    Roadster triggers the On metric to be set, which is also wrong.  If
    you want to rename On to Accessory, that might work.  It should
    trigger events under /store/events/vehicle.accessory then.<br class="">
    <br class="">
    So, for what the code does today in setting v.e.awake, renaming that
    target to v.e.accessory would be correct.  Or equivalently, create
    the v.e.accessory metric and aim the code that sees the key go to
    position 1 (or whatever it is on other cars) to that new metric.<br class="">
    <br class="">
    Renaming v.e.aux12v to Awake is ok, I guess.  At least, that aligns
    with the Roadster's behavior.  I would caution that the traditional
    use of the 12v outlet being tied to the Accessory key position might
    complicate any existing code that was changed when that metric was
    created.  We really need to ignore that the Roadster turns on the
    12v outlet when it wakes up.  That's an accident of the car's
    design, and I don't think it's important.  Awake really needs to be
    tied to the change resulting from the Wake up the car command.  Send
    the command, car wakes up, see the metric change.  Open a door, car
    wakes up, metric changes.  Let the car sit, car goes to sleep,
    metric turns false.  Metric is false, other metrics are stale.  That
    should be the binding and scope of the Awake metric.  <br class="">
    <br class="">
    I haven't updated my build environment since finishing the obd2ecu
    code, so it will take some effort (and time) to help make the
    changes.  Let me know if this is worth my time to do so.<br class="">
    <br class="">
    Hope this helps,<br class="">
    <br class="">
    Greg<br class="">
    <br class="">
    <br class="">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Mark Webb-Johnson wrote:<br class="">
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:9B04E9F0-4295-4AA5-804D-B4FA6830CC3D@webb-johnson.net" class="">
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      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      Re-reading this, perhaps I was not clear… I think the proposal is:<br class="">
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">
        <ul class="MailOutline">
          <li class="">Rename ‘v.e.awake’ to be ‘v.e.accessory’, and
            change all code in our firmware to reflect that (both
            definition and uses).</li>
          <li class="">Rename ‘v.e.aux12v’ to be ‘v.e.awake’, and
            change <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">all code in our firmware to reflect that
              (both definition and uses).</span></li>
          <li class=""><font class="">The implementation
              of the ‘awake’ command is still vehicle dependent.</font></li>
        </ul>
      </div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Is that correct? If so, I have no objections, and really
        don’t mind either way.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Regards, Mark.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
          <div class="">On 18 Feb 2020, at 9:34 AM, Mark Webb-Johnson
            <<a href="mailto:mark@webb-johnson.net" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">mark@webb-johnson.net</a>>
            wrote:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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              <div class="">Greg,</div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">Your three points understanding seems
                correct. However, I am not aware of any roadsters where
                the 12v accessory port is always on - it should not be.</div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">I would disagree that most roadster owners
                define ‘awake’ as ‘accessory’ (the first key position).
                The power to 12v accessories in roadster is not related
                to the key at all.</div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">I also agree that the v.e.awake metric, as
                used by other cars, would probably be better named
                v.e.accessory - as that seems to be what it is tracking
                (the accessory key switch). However, I’m not overly
                concerned about it. We have much bigger issues to deal
                with. I’m happy either way. It just seemed easier to add
                a metric for aux12v, and not have to change everything
                else.</div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">Regards, Mark.</div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">
                <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                  <div class="">On 18 Feb 2020, at 8:43 AM, Greg D. <<a href="mailto:gregd2350@gmail.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gregd2350@gmail.com</a>>
                    wrote:</div>
                  <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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                    <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""> Hi
                      Mark,<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      Forgive me, but I'm not quite ready to let this
                      one go.  Please help me untangle some of this in
                      my mind.  <br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      The issue comes down to what we want to do with
                      Awake and On, and how and when the metrics get
                      updated.  So this is not just a car thing, but a
                      car and phone app thing.<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      <b class="">Foundational concepts.</b><br class="">
                      <b class="">1.  </b>One source of my confusion is
                      certainly that there are a lot of ways EVs do the
                      whole "ignition" thing.  But I think we can break
                      the population into two camps.  Those with
                      physical keys, and those without.  The key
                      difference (pardon the pun) is that the state of
                      physical key cannot be changed without moving the
                      physical key, i.e. it cannot be changed remotely. 
                      To fake this, I expect, would open up a bunch of
                      inconsistency issues depending on how the car is
                      wired, potentially confusing the car itself.  That
                      could be bad.  Cars without physical keys might
                      have similar issues linking back to
                      unauthenticated access, but I presume that the
                      OVMSv3 could be considered a proxy once given the
                      proper credentials.  This would be similar to the
                      Tesla phone app having the ability to control the
                      car once paired and authenticated with it.<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      <b class="">2.  </b>The Roadster has a physical
                      key.  In common usage (what Roadster owners as a
                      community call them), the car is in one of 4
                      states.  Asleep, awake, Accessory, and On.  Asleep
                      and awake are controlled by the car, Accessory and
                      On by the driver via the physical key.  The car,
                      when Awake, is running the little pump, and is
                      generally conscious from a CAN bus perspective,
                      but the dashboard lights, cabin fan, radio, and
                      such are unpowered.  Similar to a traditional ICE,
                      the Accessory key position turns on the dash
                      lights, fan, heat, seat warmers, radio, etc., and
                      the car can be driven when the key is moved to
                      On.  Unlike most traditional ICEs, the Roadster's
                      12v accessory port is powered when the car becomes
                      Awake, while most cars only power it when in
                      Accessory or On.  I say "most" because I vaguely
                      recall a car some years ago where the 12v port was
                      always powered.  I forget what the car was, but
                      the point is that it's perhaps rare, but not
                      impossible.  <br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      <b class="">3.  </b>Metrics.  The car needs to be
                      conscious in order for its state to be read and
                      understood by the OVMSv3 module.  In common
                      Roadster terms, that means the car has to be
                      awake, but not necessarily On.  Some metrics, TPMS
                      for example, don't go live until the car is
                      driven, but those are exceptions.  The OVMS phone
                      app can display the metrics, but as expected, it
                      needs the car to be awake to do so.  So, there is
                      a command that the OVMS app can send to the OVMS
                      module to "Wake up the car".  This takes the car
                      out of its slumber, turning on the internal power
                      systems that run the various components, including
                      the little pump on the Roadster.  Metrics go live,
                      captured by the OVMSv3 module, sent to the server,
                      and on to the phone app for display.  It does not
                      (can not) move the physical key to Accessory, so
                      cannot turn on the dash lights, fan, radio, etc. 
                      <br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      I believe all of the 1, 2, & 3 above is
                      correct.  Yes?<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      <b class="">What I don't know</b><br class="">
                      I do not have OVMS experience with any EV other
                      than the Roadster.  We (some historic "we") have
                      defined OVMS "Awake" as what is commonly called
                      "Accessory" on traditional cars.  It's the first
                      key position.  This is where my brain says "Huh?",
                      and I need some help.  When you call up the App
                      and issue its "wake up the car" command, do we
                      expect that an EV will generally turn on the dash
                      lights, cabin fan, and radio?  <i class="">Do any
                        of the EVs respond in this way?</i>  If not,
                      then we have not correctly defined what Awake is.<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      <b class="">Proposal</b><br class="">
                      I should probably stop this missive here, and
                      await clarification on what I don't know, but will
                      discuss where I think it will go next.  The
                      following is a draft...  <br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      Assuming that "Wake up the car" does not turn on
                      the dash, fan, and radio in most EVs, we need to
                      change some definitions.  If so, I think the
                      Roadster's four commonly accepted definitions are,
                      in fact, the correct ones.  The Wake up the car
                      command should set the Awake metric and put the
                      car in a state where live metrics can be
                      obtained.  Turning the key to Accessory (or the
                      equivalent with a non-key vehicle where the dash
                      comes on) should set an Accessory metric (new),
                      instead of On, and turning the key to On (or the
                      equivalent where the car can be driven) should set
                      the On metric.  <br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      The charging of the 12v battery appears to be
                      important, but will depend on the car's
                      architecture.  It does not necessarily map to one
                      of the 4 states.  My Roadster's 12v battery, for
                      example, appears to be float-charged continuously
                      (I've measured it).  Using the existing high and
                      low voltage alerts may be more important than
                      simply knowing the battery is being charged, but I
                      will leave that for owners of those cars to
                      determine.<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      If a car doesn't have a state where the dash,
                      radio, etc. are on, but the car is not drivable,
                      then the Accessory state may not be used
                      independently.  For those cars, Accessory and On
                      would be linked.<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      If for some reason the Wake up the car action does
                      turn on the dash lights, fan, radio, etc., then
                      those cars should link Awake and Accessory.  Going
                      further, if Wake up the car actually allows it to
                      be driven (yikes!), then all three metrics (awake,
                      accessory, on) should be set.<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      So, thoughts?  The bottom line is that we
                      currently do not have a consistent set of
                      definitions and common usage, particularly with
                      the Roadster which oddly was one of (if not the)
                      first cars supported.<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      Thanks,<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      Greg<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Mark Webb-Johnson
                        wrote:<br class="">
                      </div>
                      <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:113C975A-517A-400F-9C33-C8834CECD6C5@webb-johnson.net" class="">
                        <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
                        Greg,
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">The problem is that your and my
                          understanding of what ‘awake’ means is not the
                          same as the OVMS definition of v.e.awake.
                          Looking at <a href="https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/userguide/metrics.html" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/userguide/metrics.html</a> we
                          can see:</div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">
                          <ul class="MailOutline">
                            <li class="">v.e.awake<br class="">
                              yes = Vehicle/bus awake (switched on)<br class="">
                              ie; my state #3 (Ignition on to the first
                              stop)<br class="">
                              <br class="">
                            </li>
                            <li class="">v.e.on<br class="">
                              yes = “Ignition” state (drivable)<br class="">
                              ie; my state #4 (Ignition on all the way)<br class="">
                              <br class="">
                            </li>
                            <li class="">and the new v.e.aux12v<br class="">
                              yes = Auxiliary 12v system is on</li>
                          </ul>
                        </div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">While we can say that ‘awake’
                          means the coolant pump is running, and a side
                          effect is the 12v auxiliary power in the cabin
                          is on; in reality it is the other way round -
                          this thing we think of as ‘awake’ is really
                          the state of the auxiliary 12v power which the
                          coolant pump runs off. Note that neither
                          ‘awake’ not ‘aux12v’ metrics are shown on the
                          Apps - they are purely an internal
                          representation.</div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">The only thing that matters to the
                          App (ie; user) is the temperatures. Those
                          sensors seem powered by the same auxiliary 12v
                          system, so when that is off those go stale.
                          That seems currently to be implemented
                          correctly (in latest edge firmware). If the
                          car is sleeping (aux12v is off), the
                          temperature sensors are not updated, go stale,
                          and appear as gray in the App. If you tap on
                          ‘wakeup’ in the App, the aux12v comes on,
                          temperature sensors get power, and the App
                          shows the temperatures in real time (white,
                          not gray) immediately.</div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">The choices we had were:</div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">
                          <ol class="MailOutline">
                            <li class="">Change the definition of
                              ‘v.e.awake’ (which has been there for
                              years) to mean aux12v power, introduce a
                              new sensor for state #3 (to mean ignition
                              on, but car not started), and then change
                              all the other vehicle modules +
                              notification code to conform to this.<br class="">
                              <br class="">
                              or<br class="">
                              <br class="">
                            </li>
                            <li class="">Add a new metric ‘v.e.aux12v’
                              to properly track the 12v auxiliary power.</li>
                          </ol>
                        </div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">We chose #2 as it just seems
                          easier and better tracks what is actually
                          happening in the car. The only issue in the
                          Tesla Roadster is we don’t know how to tell
                          the difference between states #3 and #4, so we
                          just set v.e.awake and v.e.on at the same time
                          now (to track the ignition on). Perhaps we can
                          go looking to try to find that on the CAN bus,
                          but I don’t think of it as that important
                          (also difficult for me because I don’t have
                          the car any more). If somebody can get three
                          CRTD can bus dumps from a roadster for a) with
                          the ignition off, b) with ignition to the
                          first stop, and c) with ignition fully on, I
                          can look at it to see what I can find.</div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">Bottom line is that the states for
                          Roadster are now:</div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">
                          <ul class="MailOutline">
                            <li class="">Car asleep. v.e.awake=off,
                              v.e.on=off, v.e.aux12v=off.</li>
                            <li class="">The charge port or door handle
                              is opened (or vehicle woken up from the
                              app). v.e.awake=off, v.e.on=off,
                              v.e.aux12v=on.</li>
                            <li class="">The ignition is turned on.
                              v.e.awake=on, v.e.on=on, v.e.aux12v=on.</li>
                          </ul>
                        </div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">I think that will also work for
                          the Tesla Model S, X and 3 (which have the
                          same power states). Note that modern Tesla
                          cars don’t have ignition switches, and don’t
                          have any difference between states #3 and #4.</div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">Regards, Mark.<br class="">
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                            <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                              <div class="">On 10 Feb 2020, at 2:08 AM,
                                Greg D. <<a href="mailto:gregd2350@gmail.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gregd2350@gmail.com</a>>
                                wrote:</div>
                              <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                              <div class="">
                                <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
                                <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""> Hi Mark, Michael,<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  Mmmm, not sure this is right.  The
                                  states you outline are exactly what I
                                  would expect, and what I am seeing
                                  with my car:  Awake corresponds to the
                                  car running the little pump, lighting
                                  the charge ring if the door is open,
                                  etc.  The On state properly
                                  corresponds to the turning of the
                                  key.  All that is fine as is.  That it
                                  also powers the 12v Accessory port on
                                  the dash is a bit odd, but I think we
                                  can ignore that for these purposes. 
                                  It's just one of this magical little
                                  car's quirks.  <br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  So, all was fine.  I can't test the
                                  Idling message without going for a
                                  long drive, but the triggering of
                                  vehicle.on events does work (follows
                                  the key), so I guess that's progress. 
                                  Cosmetically, we have addressed the
                                  issues, but the collateral damage?  I
                                  did the update, and the change sort of
                                  breaks the app Wake up the car. 
                                  Waking it doesn't change the state of
                                  Awake, though the car does wake up (in
                                  the old definition) as before.  I
                                  don't think we're really at root
                                  cause, so the fixes are unraveling
                                  other things.<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  What I was thinking explains both of
                                  my issues - the Idling message, and
                                  the triggering of vehicle.on events -
                                  is that both of those appear to be
                                  qualified by Awake instead of On. 
                                  That, I think, is the root cause. 
                                  That the vehicle.on event follows the
                                  key (as it should) is because we've
                                  changed the definition on Awake, not
                                  the use of On as the trigger for
                                  vehicle.on.  I am using vehicle.on,
                                  not vehicle.awake, for a reason. 
                                  Vehicle.awake should follow the little
                                  pump and its friends, not the key. 
                                  Vehicle.on and vehicle.off should
                                  follow the key.  vehicle.off is (and
                                  has been) fine.  Vehicle.on isn't tied
                                  to On as it should.<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  Having the Aux12v metric is fine by
                                  itself, I suppose, and may be useful
                                  for other cars that have their own
                                  quirks.  But the common definition of
                                  Awake for the Roadster was properly
                                  implemented before this change.  That
                                  the Roadster powers the Aux12v outlet
                                  when the car is Awake instead of
                                  following the key to On isn't relevant
                                  to the definition of Awake.<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  Greg<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Mark
                                    Webb-Johnson wrote:<br class="">
                                  </div>
                                  <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:02E4D449-32CA-418E-A8A4-BCB01B4CBBF6@webb-johnson.net" class="">
                                    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
                                    OK. This is in 3.2.010-6-gac7c26d.
                                    <div class=""><br class="">
                                    </div>
                                    <div class="">@Greg can you try this
                                      one (OTA) and let me know if you
                                      see any more of these alerts.</div>
                                    <div class=""><br class="">
                                    </div>
                                    <div class="">Regards, Mark.<br class="">
                                      <div class=""><br class="">
                                        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                                          <div class="">On 9 Feb 2020,
                                            at 5:50 PM, Michael Balzer
                                            <<a href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">dexter@expeedo.de</a>>
                                            wrote:</div>
                                          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                                          <div class="">
                                            <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
                                              charset=UTF-8" class="">
                                            <div class=""> Yes, sounds
                                              good to me.<br class="">
                                              <br class="">
                                              Regards,<br class="">
                                              Michael<br class="">
                                              <br class="">
                                              <br class="">
                                              <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
                                                09.02.20 um 09:53
                                                schrieb Mark
                                                Webb-Johnson:<br class="">
                                              </div>
                                              <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:0C5F9CD4-AC22-4373-96EC-6C64787DE17F@webb-johnson.net" class="">
                                                <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
                                                  charset=UTF-8" class="">
                                                <div class="">The Tesla
                                                  Roadster transmits
                                                  it’s sleep/awake
                                                  status:</div>
                                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                                </div>
                                                <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0
                                                  40px; border: none;
                                                  padding: 0px;" class="">
                                                  <div class="">ID 0x100
                                                    B1=0x96</div>
                                                </blockquote>
                                                <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0
                                                  40px; border: none;
                                                  padding: 0px;" class="">
                                                  <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0
                                                    40px; border: none;
                                                    padding: 0px;" class="">
                                                    <div class="">B4=doors3</div>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                </blockquote>
                                                <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0
                                                  40px; border: none;
                                                  padding: 0px;" class="">
                                                  <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0
                                                    40px; border: none;
                                                    padding: 0px;" class="">
                                                    <blockquote style="margin: 0 0
                                                      0 40px; border:
                                                      none; padding:
                                                      0px;" class="">
                                                      <div class="">bit1
                                                        = awake/asleep
                                                        (awake=1 /
                                                        asleep=0)</div>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                </blockquote>
                                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                                </div>
                                                <div class="">In the v2
                                                  code, we simply sent
                                                  this as doors3 value
                                                  (in the ‘D’ protocol
                                                  message).</div>
                                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                                </div>
                                                <div class="">The v3
                                                  code has this as:</div>
                                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                                </div>
                                                <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0
                                                  40px; border: none;
                                                  padding: 0px;" class="">
                                                  <div class="">
                                                    <div class="">case
                                                      0x96: // Doors /
                                                      Charging yes/no</div>
                                                    <div class="">  {</div>
                                                    <div class=""> 
                                                      m_awake = d[3]
                                                      & 0x01;</div>
                                                  </div>
                                                </blockquote>
                                                <div class="">
                                                  <div class=""><br class="">
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div class="">Which
                                                    was wrong (bit #0).
                                                    I fixed it in recent
                                                    commit
                                                    39cdb7e19e5a3b88ab7217a9adb0cb6008278ab1
                                                    to 'm_awake = d[3]
                                                    & 0x02’ (bit
                                                    #1), and that now
                                                    correctly tracks the
                                                    vehicle state. This
                                                    was to address bug
                                                    'Tesla Roadster:
                                                    Vehicle AWAKE metric
                                                    not correct #328’.</div>
                                                  <div class=""><br class="">
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div class="">Over the
                                                    years, it seems that
                                                    the meaning of
                                                    doors3 has changed.
                                                    It originally just
                                                    specified bit #1,
                                                    but now the protocol
                                                    specifies:</div>
                                                  <div class=""><br class="">
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                                <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0
                                                  40px; border: none;
                                                  padding: 0px;" class="">
                                                  <div class="">
                                                    <div class="">
                                                      <div class="page" title="Page 11">
                                                        <div class="layoutArea">
                                                          <div class="column">
                                                          <ul style="list-style-type:
                                                          none" class="">
                                                          <li class=""><p class=""><span style="color:
                                                          rgb(0, 0, 10);
                                                          font-style:
                                                          normal;
                                                          font-size:
                                                          14px;" class=""><font class="" face="Andale
                                                          Mono">Door
                                                          state #3 </font></span></p><p class=""><span style="color:
                                                          rgb(0, 0, 10);
                                                          font-style:
                                                          normal;
                                                          font-size:
                                                          14px;" class=""><font class="" face="Andale
                                                          Mono">bit0 =
                                                          Car awake
                                                          (turned on=1 /
                                                          off=0)<br class="">
                                                          bit1 = Cooling
                                                          pump
                                                          (on=1/off=0)<br class="">
                                                          bit6 =
                                                          1=Logged into
                                                          motor
                                                          controller<br class="">
                                                          bit7 = 1=Motor
                                                          controller in
                                                          configuration
                                                          mode</font></span><span style="font-size: 12.000000pt; font-family: 'ArialMT'; color:
                                                          rgb(0.000000%,
                                                          0.000000%,
                                                          3.921000%)" class=""> </span></p>
                                                          </li>
                                                          </ul>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                </blockquote>
                                                <div class="">
                                                  <div class="">The
                                                    Tesla Roadster code
                                                    in v2 never adhered
                                                    to that, and just
                                                    set doors3 to
                                                    whatever it saw on
                                                    the bus. However,
                                                    I’ve never seen
                                                    values other than
                                                    0x00 or 0x02 on that
                                                    byte. Certainly, no
                                                    known value for
                                                    bit#0 (car turned
                                                    on). I guess this is
                                                    where the confusion
                                                    from the conversion
                                                    v2 -> v3 came
                                                    from (the protocol
                                                    document saying
                                                    ‘awake’ in bit#0, vs
                                                    cooling pump in bit
                                                    #1). Tesla Roadster
                                                    users know the
                                                    cooling pump as
                                                    ‘awake/sleep’.</div>
                                                  <div class=""><br class="">
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div class="">So,
                                                    where are we now? A
                                                    general car can be
                                                    defined as at least
                                                    these states:</div>
                                                  <div class=""><br class="">
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div class="">
                                                    <ol class="MailOutline">
                                                      <li class="">Ignition
                                                        off, asleep,
                                                        consuming as
                                                        little power as
                                                        possible</li>
                                                      <li class="">Ignition
                                                        off, awake, with
                                                        some systems
                                                        using power</li>
                                                      <li class="">Ignition
                                                        on to the first
                                                        stop (just some
                                                        systems on, but
                                                        car not started)</li>
                                                      <li class="">Ignition
                                                        on all the way
                                                        (engine running
                                                        or starting)</li>
                                                      <li class="">Ignition
                                                        past on all the
                                                        way (turning the
                                                        engine starter
                                                        motor)</li>
                                                    </ol>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div class=""><br class="">
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div class="">We can
                                                    ignore #5 for
                                                    electric cars.</div>
                                                  <div class=""><br class="">
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div class="">In v3,
                                                    we have these
                                                    metrics:</div>
                                                  <div class=""><br class="">
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div class="">
                                                    <ul class="MailOutline">
                                                      <li class="">v.e.awake</li>
                                                      <li class="">v.e.on</li>
                                                      <li class="">v.e.charging12v</li>
                                                    </ul>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div class=""><br class="">
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div class="">I
                                                    assumed that
                                                    v.e.awake
                                                    corresponds to state
                                                    #2, and v.e.on to
                                                    states #3 and/or #4.</div>
                                                  <div class=""><br class="">
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div class="">The
                                                    v.e.charging12v
                                                    doesn’t really work
                                                    for the Roadster.
                                                    The cooling pump is
                                                    not related to the
                                                    little 12v battery
                                                    charging system.</div>
                                                  <div class=""><br class="">
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div class="">I guess
                                                    I could add a
                                                    standard metric
                                                    ‘v.e.aux12v’ to
                                                    indicate the
                                                    auxiliary 12v system
                                                    is on (and then set
                                                    v.e.awake and v.e.ok
                                                    corresponding to the
                                                    ignition switch). Is
                                                    that acceptable?</div>
                                                  <div class=""><br class="">
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div class="">Regards,
                                                    Mark.</div>
                                                  <div class=""><br class="">
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div class="">
                                                    <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                                                      <div class="">On 8
                                                        Feb 2020, at
                                                        5:46 AM, Greg D.
                                                        <<a href="mailto:gregd2350@gmail.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gregd2350@gmail.com</a>>
                                                        wrote:</div>
                                                      <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                                                      <div class="">
                                                        <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
                                                        <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""> Hi Michael, Mark,<br class="">
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          Ok, very
                                                          interesting
                                                          that this is
                                                          an old
                                                          feature.  I
                                                          only just
                                                          started seeing
                                                          the message
                                                          very
                                                          recently. 
                                                          What changed?<br class="">
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          As to "Awake"
                                                          vs "On" vs
                                                          "Ignited",
                                                          they are
                                                          definitely
                                                          different.  I
                                                          am seeing the
                                                          correct state
                                                          reflected in
                                                          v.e.awake and
                                                          v.e.on. 
                                                          Simply opening
                                                          the car door
                                                          when the car
                                                          is asleep will
                                                          wake it up
                                                          (v.e.awake
                                                          turns to yes),
                                                          and inserting
                                                          the key and
                                                          moving it to
                                                          the
                                                          "Accessory"
                                                          position
                                                          (first notch)
                                                          moves the
                                                          state to "On"
                                                          (both metrics
                                                          are "yes"). 
                                                          Note that the
                                                          car is not On
                                                          (drivable)
                                                          until the key
                                                          is moved one
                                                          notch farther;
                                                          I'm presuming
                                                          that's
                                                          "Ignited" in
                                                          your
                                                          terminology. 
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          But something
                                                          has changed. 
                                                          I have an
                                                          event script
                                                          tied to
                                                          vehicle.on
                                                          which
                                                          activates
                                                          ext12v power
                                                          to enable a
                                                          HUD or similar
                                                          (*).  Simply
                                                          awakening the
                                                          car triggers
                                                          the script, a
                                                          behavior I
                                                          believe is
                                                          new, and
                                                          incorrect. 
                                                          The script
                                                          should get
                                                          activated only
                                                          when the key
                                                          is moved to
                                                          Accessory
                                                          (your "On"
                                                          state).  When
                                                          the car goes
                                                          directly back
                                                          to sleep after
                                                          a few minutes,
                                                          the
                                                          vehicle.off
                                                          script
                                                          correctly does
                                                          not trigger. 
                                                          Turning the
                                                          car to
                                                          Accessory,
                                                          then Off
                                                          (removing the
                                                          key), does
                                                          correctly
                                                          trigger the
                                                          vehicle.off
                                                          script, even
                                                          though the car
                                                          is still Awake
                                                          at the time.<br class="">
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          So what I
                                                          think is
                                                          happening with
                                                          the "Vehicle
                                                          is idling"
                                                          message is
                                                          that it's a
                                                          side effect of
                                                          some logic
                                                          change to what
                                                          "on" is, that
                                                          it's being
                                                          sensed and
                                                          triggered by
                                                          "Awake"
                                                          instead of
                                                          "On".  The car
                                                          is definitely
                                                          Awake during
                                                          charging, but
                                                          it is not On. 
                                                          And not being
                                                          On, the Idle
                                                          message
                                                          shouldn't be
                                                          triggered, nor
                                                          should my HUD
                                                          be turned on.<br class="">
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          What changed?<br class="">
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          Greg<br class="">
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          (*)  Actually,
                                                          the script
                                                          does a bit
                                                          more, to work
                                                          around the
                                                          CAN3 bus
                                                          hangs:<br class="">
                                                          <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          <tt class="">power
                                                          ext12v off</tt><tt class=""><br class="">
                                                          </tt><tt class="">obdii
                                                          ecu stop</tt><tt class=""><br class="">
                                                          </tt><tt class="">obdii
                                                          ecu start can3</tt><tt class=""><br class="">
                                                          </tt><tt class="">power
                                                          ext12v on</tt><br class="">
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Michael
                                                          Balzer wrote:<br class="">
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:39ff043f-34e9-4f28-29cb-4d24ce43a65c@expeedo.de" class="">
                                                          <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
                                                          <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Greg,
                                                          Mark,<br class="">
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          that's
                                                          actually a
                                                          very old
                                                          feature
                                                          originating
                                                          from V2. It's
                                                          meant to alert
                                                          about a car
                                                          left turned
                                                          on, which is
                                                          both a
                                                          potential
                                                          security issue
                                                          (key is
                                                          plugged) and a
                                                          potential
                                                          fire/explosion
                                                          threat on
                                                          vehicles that
                                                          may overcharge
                                                          the 12V
                                                          battery from
                                                          the DC/DC
                                                          converter.
                                                          It's also main
                                                          battery
                                                          drainage.<br class="">
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          This also
                                                          needs to
                                                          trigger during
                                                          charging, but
                                                          of course not
                                                          if the vehicle
                                                          wakes itself
                                                          for some
                                                          internal
                                                          checks or OTA
                                                          updates /
                                                          whatever.<br class="">
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          This was/is
                                                          using the
                                                          definition of
                                                          "awake" as
                                                          "turned on",
                                                          and "on" as
                                                          "ignited". It
                                                          seems all cars
                                                          except the
                                                          roadster
                                                          follow this
                                                          scheme now, so
                                                          maybe we
                                                          should
                                                          separate the
                                                          "maintenance
                                                          awake" state?<br class="">
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          Regards,<br class="">
                                                          Michael<br class="">
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          Am 07.02.20 um
                                                          08:43 schrieb
                                                          Mark
                                                          Webb-Johnson:<br class="">
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:2E9FB03E-E1F9-4471-85DC-3530F197795B@webb-johnson.net" class="">
                                                          <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
                                                          Greg,
                                                          <div class=""><br class="">
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class="">That
                                                          would be the
                                                          system
                                                          thinking the
                                                          vehicle is
                                                          asleep, but
                                                          speed > 0.</div>
                                                          <div class=""><br class="">
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class="">I
                                                          did fix the
                                                          roadster
                                                          awake/sleep
                                                          flag (which
                                                          was not being
                                                          set correctly
                                                          before), so
                                                          most likely
                                                          this is
                                                          something new.</div>
                                                          <div class=""><br class="">
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class="">The
                                                          logic is
                                                          in VehicleTicker1()
                                                          in
                                                          vehicle.cpp.
                                                          It is:</div>
                                                          <div class=""><br class="">
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote style="margin:
                                                          0 0 0 40px;
                                                          border: none;
                                                          padding: 0px;" class="">
                                                          <div class="">
                                                          <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale
                                                          Mono"><span style="font-style:
                                                          normal;
                                                          font-size:
                                                          14px;" class="">//
                                                          Idle alert:</span></font></div>
                                                          <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale
                                                          Mono"><span style="font-style:
                                                          normal;
                                                          font-size:
                                                          14px;" class="">if
(!StdMetrics.ms_v_env_awake->AsBool() ||
                                                          StdMetrics.ms_v_pos_speed->AsFloat()
                                                          > 0)</span></font></div>
                                                          <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale
                                                          Mono"><span style="font-style:
                                                          normal;
                                                          font-size:
                                                          14px;" class="">  {</span></font></div>
                                                          <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale
                                                          Mono"><span style="font-style:
                                                          normal;
                                                          font-size:
                                                          14px;" class=""> 
                                                          m_idle_ticker
                                                          = 15 * 60; //
                                                          first alert
                                                          after 15
                                                          minutes</span></font></div>
                                                          <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale
                                                          Mono"><span style="font-style:
                                                          normal;
                                                          font-size:
                                                          14px;" class="">  }</span></font></div>
                                                          <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale
                                                          Mono"><span style="font-style:
                                                          normal;
                                                          font-size:
                                                          14px;" class="">else
                                                          if
                                                          (m_idle_ticker
                                                          > 0
                                                          &&
                                                          --m_idle_ticker
                                                          == 0)</span></font></div>
                                                          <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale
                                                          Mono"><span style="font-style:
                                                          normal;
                                                          font-size:
                                                          14px;" class="">  {</span></font></div>
                                                          <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale
                                                          Mono"><span style="font-style:
                                                          normal;
                                                          font-size:
                                                          14px;" class=""> 
NotifyVehicleIdling();</span></font></div>
                                                          <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale
                                                          Mono"><span style="font-style:
                                                          normal;
                                                          font-size:
                                                          14px;" class=""> 
                                                          m_idle_ticker
                                                          = 60 * 60; //
                                                          successive
                                                          alerts every
                                                          60 minutes</span></font></div>
                                                          <div class=""><font class="" face="Andale
                                                          Mono"><span style="font-style:
                                                          normal;
                                                          font-size:
                                                          14px;" class="">  }</span></font></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <div class="">
                                                          <div class=""><br class="">
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class="">So,
                                                          that resets
                                                          the fifteen
                                                          minute timer
                                                          whenever the
                                                          vehicle is
                                                          either asleep
                                                          OR speed>0
                                                          (driving).
                                                          Otherwise the
                                                          timer counts
                                                          down, and
                                                          after 15
                                                          minutes the
                                                          alert is
                                                          raised (and
                                                          every 60
                                                          minutes
                                                          thereafter
                                                          until either
                                                          the vehicle
                                                          goes to sleep
                                                          or
                                                          speed>0).</div>
                                                          <div class=""><br class="">
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class="">For
                                                          roadster, that
                                                          work work. The
                                                          car can
                                                          ‘awake’ itself
                                                          for
                                                          charging,etc.</div>
                                                          <div class=""><br class="">
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class="">I
                                                          am not really
                                                          sure why we
                                                          are using
                                                          ms_v_env_awake
                                                          in the first
                                                          place here.
                                                          Why do we care
                                                          if the vehicle
                                                          is awake or
                                                          not? Surely we
                                                          should be
                                                          looking
                                                          at ms_v_env_on
                                                          (ie; vehicle
                                                          switched on)?
                                                          But for JDEMO
                                                          users that
                                                          would cause a
                                                          problem (as
                                                          for they have
                                                          to leave the
                                                          vehicle
                                                          ignition on
                                                          while
                                                          charging).</div>
                                                          <div class=""><br class="">
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class="">Maybe
                                                          simplest to
                                                          disable this
                                                          alert for
                                                          Roadster,
                                                          unless someone
                                                          else has any
                                                          better ideas.
                                                          In any case,
                                                          we need to
                                                          think about
                                                          using
                                                          ms_v_env_awake
                                                          vs
                                                          ms_v_env_on.</div>
                                                          <div class=""><br class="">
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class="">Regards,
                                                          Mark.</div>
                                                          <div class=""><br class="">
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class="">
                                                          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                                                          <div class="">On
                                                          7 Feb 2020, at
                                                          2:22 AM, Greg
                                                          D. <<a href="mailto:gregd2350@gmail.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gregd2350@gmail.com</a>>
                                                          wrote:</div>
                                                          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                                                          <div class="">
                                                          <div class="">Hi
                                                          folks,<br class="">
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          I'm starting
                                                          to get an
                                                          alert "Vehicle
                                                          is idling /
                                                          stopped turned
                                                          on"<br class="">
                                                          when my
                                                          Roadster is
                                                          charging.
                                                           Seems to
                                                          occur every
                                                          hour.<br class="">
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          Is this
                                                          something new
                                                          with OVMSv3,
                                                          or did
                                                          something
                                                          change / break
                                                          on my<br class="">
                                                          car?<br class="">
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          Greg<br class="">
                                                          <br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
                                                          OvmsDev
                                                          mailing list<br class="">
                                                          <a href="mailto:OvmsDev@lists.openvehicles.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">OvmsDev@lists.openvehicles.com</a><br class="">
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                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
                                                          <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          <br class="">
                                                          <pre class="moz-signature" cols="144">-- 
Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal
Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
</pre>
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_______________________________________________<br class="">
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</pre>
                                              </blockquote>
                                              <br class="">
                                              <pre class="moz-signature" cols="160">-- 
Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal
Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
</pre>
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