<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Greg,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The problem is that your and my understanding of what ‘awake’ means is not the same as the OVMS definition of v.e.awake. Looking at <a href="https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/userguide/metrics.html" class="">https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/userguide/metrics.html</a> we can see:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><ul class="MailOutline"><li class="">v.e.awake<br class="">yes = Vehicle/bus awake (switched on)<br class="">ie; my state #3 (Ignition on to the first stop)<br class=""><br class=""></li><li class="">v.e.on<br class="">yes = “Ignition” state (drivable)<br class="">ie; my state #4 (Ignition on all the way)<br class=""><br class=""></li><li class="">and the new v.e.aux12v<br class="">yes = Auxiliary 12v system is on</li></ul></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">While we can say that ‘awake’ means the coolant pump is running, and a side effect is the 12v auxiliary power in the cabin is on; in reality it is the other way round - this thing we think of as ‘awake’ is really the state of the auxiliary 12v power which the coolant pump runs off. Note that neither ‘awake’ not ‘aux12v’ metrics are shown on the Apps - they are purely an internal representation.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The only thing that matters to the App (ie; user) is the temperatures. Those sensors seem powered by the same auxiliary 12v system, so when that is off those go stale. That seems currently to be implemented correctly (in latest edge firmware). If the car is sleeping (aux12v is off), the temperature sensors are not updated, go stale, and appear as gray in the App. If you tap on ‘wakeup’ in the App, the aux12v comes on, temperature sensors get power, and the App shows the temperatures in real time (white, not gray) immediately.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The choices we had were:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><ol class="MailOutline"><li class="">Change the definition of ‘v.e.awake’ (which has been there for years) to mean aux12v power, introduce a new sensor for state #3 (to mean ignition on, but car not started), and then change all the other vehicle modules + notification code to conform to this.<br class=""><br class="">or<br class=""><br class=""></li><li class="">Add a new metric ‘v.e.aux12v’ to properly track the 12v auxiliary power.</li></ol></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We chose #2 as it just seems easier and better tracks what is actually happening in the car. The only issue in the Tesla Roadster is we don’t know how to tell the difference between states #3 and #4, so we just set v.e.awake and v.e.on at the same time now (to track the ignition on). Perhaps we can go looking to try to find that on the CAN bus, but I don’t think of it as that important (also difficult for me because I don’t have the car any more). If somebody can get three CRTD can bus dumps from a roadster for a) with the ignition off, b) with ignition to the first stop, and c) with ignition fully on, I can look at it to see what I can find.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Bottom line is that the states for Roadster are now:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><ul class="MailOutline"><li class="">Car asleep. v.e.awake=off, v.e.on=off, v.e.aux12v=off.</li><li class="">The charge port or door handle is opened (or vehicle woken up from the app). v.e.awake=off, v.e.on=off, v.e.aux12v=on.</li><li class="">The ignition is turned on. v.e.awake=on, v.e.on=on, v.e.aux12v=on.</li></ul></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think that will also work for the Tesla Model S, X and 3 (which have the same power states). Note that modern Tesla cars don’t have ignition switches, and don’t have any difference between states #3 and #4.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Regards, Mark.<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 10 Feb 2020, at 2:08 AM, Greg D. <<a href="mailto:gregd2350@gmail.com" class="">gregd2350@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
Hi Mark, Michael,<br class="">
<br class="">
Mmmm, not sure this is right. The states you outline are exactly
what I would expect, and what I am seeing with my car: Awake
corresponds to the car running the little pump, lighting the charge
ring if the door is open, etc. The On state properly corresponds to
the turning of the key. All that is fine as is. That it also
powers the 12v Accessory port on the dash is a bit odd, but I think
we can ignore that for these purposes. It's just one of this
magical little car's quirks. <br class="">
<br class="">
So, all was fine. I can't test the Idling message without going for
a long drive, but the triggering of vehicle.on events does work
(follows the key), so I guess that's progress. Cosmetically, we
have addressed the issues, but the collateral damage? I did the
update, and the change sort of breaks the app Wake up the car.
Waking it doesn't change the state of Awake, though the car does
wake up (in the old definition) as before. I don't think we're
really at root cause, so the fixes are unraveling other things.<br class="">
<br class="">
What I was thinking explains both of my issues - the Idling message,
and the triggering of vehicle.on events - is that both of those
appear to be qualified by Awake instead of On. That, I think, is
the root cause. That the vehicle.on event follows the key (as it
should) is because we've changed the definition on Awake, not the
use of On as the trigger for vehicle.on. I am using vehicle.on, not
vehicle.awake, for a reason. Vehicle.awake should follow the little
pump and its friends, not the key. Vehicle.on and vehicle.off
should follow the key. vehicle.off is (and has been) fine.
Vehicle.on isn't tied to On as it should.<br class="">
<br class="">
Having the Aux12v metric is fine by itself, I suppose, and may be
useful for other cars that have their own quirks. But the common
definition of Awake for the Roadster was properly implemented before
this change. That the Roadster powers the Aux12v outlet when the
car is Awake instead of following the key to On isn't relevant to
the definition of Awake.<br class="">
<br class="">
Greg<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Mark Webb-Johnson wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:02E4D449-32CA-418E-A8A4-BCB01B4CBBF6@webb-johnson.net" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
OK. This is in 3.2.010-6-gac7c26d.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">@Greg can you try this one (OTA) and let me know if
you see any more of these alerts.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Regards, Mark.<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 9 Feb 2020, at 5:50 PM, Michael Balzer <<a href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">dexter@expeedo.de</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div class=""> Yes, sounds good to me.<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br class="">
Michael<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 09.02.20 um 09:53
schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:0C5F9CD4-AC22-4373-96EC-6C64787DE17F@webb-johnson.net" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div class="">The Tesla Roadster transmits it’s
sleep/awake status:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none;
padding: 0px;" class="">
<div class="">ID 0x100 B1=0x96</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none;
padding: 0px;" class="">
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none;
padding: 0px;" class="">
<div class="">B4=doors3</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none;
padding: 0px;" class="">
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none;
padding: 0px;" class="">
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border:
none; padding: 0px;" class="">
<div class="">bit1 = awake/asleep (awake=1 /
asleep=0)</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">In the v2 code, we simply sent this as
doors3 value (in the ‘D’ protocol message).</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The v3 code has this as:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none;
padding: 0px;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">case 0x96: // Doors / Charging
yes/no</div>
<div class=""> {</div>
<div class=""> m_awake = d[3] & 0x01;</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Which was wrong (bit #0). I fixed it
in recent commit
39cdb7e19e5a3b88ab7217a9adb0cb6008278ab1 to
'm_awake = d[3] & 0x02’ (bit #1), and that now
correctly tracks the vehicle state. This was to
address bug 'Tesla Roadster: Vehicle AWAKE metric
not correct #328’.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Over the years, it seems that the
meaning of doors3 has changed. It originally just
specified bit #1, but now the protocol specifies:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none;
padding: 0px;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="page" title="Page 11">
<div class="layoutArea">
<div class="column">
<ul style="list-style-type: none" class="">
<li class=""><p class=""><span style="color: rgb(0,
0, 10); font-style: normal;
font-size: 14px;" class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono">Door
state #3 </font></span></p><p class=""><span style="color: rgb(0,
0, 10); font-style: normal;
font-size: 14px;" class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono">bit0
= Car awake (turned on=1 /
off=0)<br class="">
bit1 = Cooling pump (on=1/off=0)<br class="">
bit6 = 1=Logged into motor
controller<br class="">
bit7 = 1=Motor controller in
configuration mode</font></span><span style="font-size: 12.000000pt;
font-family: 'ArialMT'; color:
rgb(0.000000%, 0.000000%,
3.921000%)" class=""> </span></p>
</li>
</ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="">
<div class="">The Tesla Roadster code in v2 never
adhered to that, and just set doors3 to whatever
it saw on the bus. However, I’ve never seen values
other than 0x00 or 0x02 on that byte. Certainly,
no known value for bit#0 (car turned on). I guess
this is where the confusion from the conversion v2
-> v3 came from (the protocol document saying
‘awake’ in bit#0, vs cooling pump in bit #1).
Tesla Roadster users know the cooling pump as
‘awake/sleep’.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">So, where are we now? A general car
can be defined as at least these states:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<ol class="MailOutline">
<li class="">Ignition off, asleep, consuming as
little power as possible</li>
<li class="">Ignition off, awake, with some
systems using power</li>
<li class="">Ignition on to the first stop (just
some systems on, but car not started)</li>
<li class="">Ignition on all the way (engine
running or starting)</li>
<li class="">Ignition past on all the way
(turning the engine starter motor)</li>
</ol>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">We can ignore #5 for electric cars.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">In v3, we have these metrics:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<ul class="MailOutline">
<li class="">v.e.awake</li>
<li class="">v.e.on</li>
<li class="">v.e.charging12v</li>
</ul>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I assumed that v.e.awake corresponds
to state #2, and v.e.on to states #3 and/or #4.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The v.e.charging12v doesn’t really
work for the Roadster. The cooling pump is not
related to the little 12v battery charging system.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I guess I could add a standard metric
‘v.e.aux12v’ to indicate the auxiliary 12v system
is on (and then set v.e.awake and v.e.ok
corresponding to the ignition switch). Is that
acceptable?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Regards, Mark.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 8 Feb 2020, at 5:46 AM, Greg D.
<<a href="mailto:gregd2350@gmail.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gregd2350@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
Hi Michael, Mark,<br class="">
<br class="">
Ok, very interesting that this is an old
feature. I only just started seeing the
message very recently. What changed?<br class="">
<br class="">
As to "Awake" vs "On" vs "Ignited", they are
definitely different. I am seeing the
correct state reflected in v.e.awake and
v.e.on. Simply opening the car door when
the car is asleep will wake it up (v.e.awake
turns to yes), and inserting the key and
moving it to the "Accessory" position (first
notch) moves the state to "On" (both metrics
are "yes"). Note that the car is not On
(drivable) until the key is moved one notch
farther; I'm presuming that's "Ignited" in
your terminology. <br class="">
<br class="">
But something has changed. I have an event
script tied to vehicle.on which activates
ext12v power to enable a HUD or similar
(*). Simply awakening the car triggers the
script, a behavior I believe is new, and
incorrect. The script should get activated
only when the key is moved to Accessory
(your "On" state). When the car goes
directly back to sleep after a few minutes,
the vehicle.off script correctly does not
trigger. Turning the car to Accessory, then
Off (removing the key), does correctly
trigger the vehicle.off script, even though
the car is still Awake at the time.<br class="">
<br class="">
So what I think is happening with the
"Vehicle is idling" message is that it's a
side effect of some logic change to what
"on" is, that it's being sensed and
triggered by "Awake" instead of "On". The
car is definitely Awake during charging, but
it is not On. And not being On, the Idle
message shouldn't be triggered, nor should
my HUD be turned on.<br class="">
<br class="">
What changed?<br class="">
<br class="">
Greg<br class="">
<br class="">
(*) Actually, the script does a bit more,
to work around the CAN3 bus hangs:<br class="">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
<br class="">
<tt class="">power ext12v off</tt><tt class=""><br class="">
</tt><tt class="">obdii ecu stop</tt><tt class=""><br class="">
</tt><tt class="">obdii ecu start can3</tt><tt class=""><br class="">
</tt><tt class="">power ext12v on</tt><br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Michael Balzer
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:39ff043f-34e9-4f28-29cb-4d24ce43a65c@expeedo.de" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Greg, Mark,<br class="">
<br class="">
that's actually a very old feature
originating from V2. It's meant to alert
about a car left turned on, which is
both a potential security issue (key is
plugged) and a potential fire/explosion
threat on vehicles that may overcharge
the 12V battery from the DC/DC
converter. It's also main battery
drainage.<br class="">
<br class="">
This also needs to trigger during
charging, but of course not if the
vehicle wakes itself for some internal
checks or OTA updates / whatever.<br class="">
<br class="">
This was/is using the definition of
"awake" as "turned on", and "on" as
"ignited". It seems all cars except the
roadster follow this scheme now, so
maybe we should separate the
"maintenance awake" state?<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br class="">
Michael<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Am 07.02.20 um 08:43 schrieb Mark
Webb-Johnson:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:2E9FB03E-E1F9-4471-85DC-3530F197795B@webb-johnson.net" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
Greg,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">That would be the system
thinking the vehicle is asleep, but
speed > 0.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I did fix the roadster
awake/sleep flag (which was not being
set correctly before), so most likely
this is something new.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The logic is
in VehicleTicker1() in vehicle.cpp. It
is:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px;
border: none; padding: 0px;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style: normal;
font-size: 14px;" class="">//
Idle alert:</span></font></div>
<div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style: normal;
font-size: 14px;" class="">if
(!StdMetrics.ms_v_env_awake->AsBool() ||
StdMetrics.ms_v_pos_speed->AsFloat()
> 0)</span></font></div>
<div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style: normal;
font-size: 14px;" class=""> {</span></font></div>
<div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style: normal;
font-size: 14px;" class="">
m_idle_ticker = 15 * 60; //
first alert after 15 minutes</span></font></div>
<div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style: normal;
font-size: 14px;" class=""> }</span></font></div>
<div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style: normal;
font-size: 14px;" class="">else
if (m_idle_ticker > 0
&& --m_idle_ticker ==
0)</span></font></div>
<div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style: normal;
font-size: 14px;" class=""> {</span></font></div>
<div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style: normal;
font-size: 14px;" class="">
NotifyVehicleIdling();</span></font></div>
<div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style: normal;
font-size: 14px;" class="">
m_idle_ticker = 60 * 60; //
successive alerts every 60
minutes</span></font></div>
<div class=""><font class="" face="Andale Mono"><span style="font-style: normal;
font-size: 14px;" class=""> }</span></font></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">So, that resets the
fifteen minute timer whenever the
vehicle is either asleep OR
speed>0 (driving). Otherwise the
timer counts down, and after 15
minutes the alert is raised (and
every 60 minutes thereafter until
either the vehicle goes to sleep or
speed>0).</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">For roadster, that work
work. The car can ‘awake’ itself for
charging,etc.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I am not really sure why
we are using ms_v_env_awake in the
first place here. Why do we care if
the vehicle is awake or not? Surely
we should be looking at ms_v_env_on
(ie; vehicle switched on)? But for
JDEMO users that would cause a
problem (as for they have to leave
the vehicle ignition on while
charging).</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Maybe simplest to
disable this alert for Roadster,
unless someone else has any better
ideas. In any case, we need to think
about using ms_v_env_awake vs
ms_v_env_on.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Regards, Mark.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 7 Feb 2020, at
2:22 AM, Greg D. <<a href="mailto:gregd2350@gmail.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gregd2350@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="">Hi folks,<br class="">
<br class="">
I'm starting to get an alert
"Vehicle is idling / stopped
turned on"<br class="">
when my Roadster is charging.
Seems to occur every hour.<br class="">
<br class="">
Is this something new with
OVMSv3, or did something
change / break on my<br class="">
car?<br class="">
<br class="">
Greg<br class="">
<br class="">
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