<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">I can't see any subscribe button / function in the forum though, and find no option in my account to enable such. Is something wrong with my account?</div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>Yes. Mea culpa. I fixed the permissions (for everyone, not just you), and now should be ok.<br class=""><div><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">I suggest vehicle maintainers get forum admin rights for their sections, so they can add sticky/locked info threads and edit posts.<br class=""><br class="">Being able to add vehicle maintainer donation info would be nice. Maybe with admin rights that can basically be done by the maintainer using a sticky thread as well?</div></blockquote><br class=""></div><div>I will try to add this. I think it needs another module to add this moderator level functionality. It is certainly a good idea.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Regards, Mark.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 30 May 2019, at 3:31 PM, Michael Balzer <<a href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de" class="">dexter@expeedo.de</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
Mark,<br class="">
<br class="">
thanks for the structuring work.<br class="">
<br class="">
I can't see any subscribe button / function in the forum though, and
find no option in my account to enable such. Is something wrong with
my account?<br class="">
<br class="">
I suggest vehicle maintainers get forum admin rights for their
sections, so they can add sticky/locked info threads and edit posts.<br class="">
<br class="">
Being able to add vehicle maintainer donation info would be nice.
Maybe with admin rights that can basically be done by the maintainer
using a sticky thread as well?<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br class="">
Michael<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 30.05.19 um 08:42 schrieb Mark
Webb-Johnson:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:8AA6CF59-FAB8-4E41-939B-0EF99C8C58AD@webb-johnson.net" class="">
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<div class="">Michael, and others, thanks for your feedback.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
It seems that the consensus is that the change review process is
adding value (particularly for new developers), so let’s leave the
components the way they are.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I have restructured the forums on <a href="http://www.openvehicles.com/" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.openvehicles.com</a> to have
individual forums for each supported vehicle type. The updated
forum system also now supports read/unread messages, and you can
subscribe for eMail notifications (by user, topic, thread, and a
host of other possibilities). For example, I went to the
sections for Tesla Roadster and hit the ’subscribe’ button so I
get notified of new posts in that section.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I see a couple of others users have stumbled upon
that already, and added subscriptions. I am hoping users and
developers for individual vehicle types will use that to help
with supporting other users of their vehicle type (and from now
on I will direct specific vehicle support questions to those
forums).</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I have also standardised the structure in the user
guide, to give each current vehicle their own section, and have
a standardised overview page for each vehicle type.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Regarding acknowledging developer's efforts, I think
the vehicle sections in the advanced user guide is the best to
keep this maintained. We can also acknowledge developers in the
vehicle specific forum sections. I think it should be entirely
up to the developer whether they provide contact information,
but names of key contributors would be good to have (so people
know who to thank).</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">We can also publish this on our websites. What do you think
about individual donate buttons (for where one developer is
responsible for a vehicle type)? I am happy to do that, but
would it be useful/helpful? I find that people mostly hit
donate when asking for support, so the forums seem a good
place for it.</div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">To do that, we need a list of developers for each
vehicle type. Working off git logs, I’ve come up with the
following:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<ul class="MailOutline">
<li class="">DBC: Mark W-J</li>
<li class="">DEMO: Mark W-J</li>
<li class="">Fiat 500e: Jakob Löw?</li>
<li class="">Kia e-Niro: Geir Øyvind Vælidalo?</li>
<li class="">Kia Soul EV: Geir Øyvind Vælidalo?</li>
<li class="">Mitsubishi i-Miev: Thomas Bergo, Juerg Walz,
KommyKT, Tamás Kovács?</li>
<li class="">Nissan Leaf: Tom Parker, Robin O’Leary, Anko
Hanse?</li>
<li class="">OBDII: Mark W-J</li>
<li class="">Renault Twizy: Michael Balzer</li>
<li class="">Smart ED: Martin Graml, Thomas Heuer, Dimitrie78?</li>
<li class="">Think City: Hakon Markussen, Nikolay Shishkov?</li>
<li class="">Tesla Roadster: Mark W-J, Michael Stegen, Sonny
Chen</li>
<li class="">Tesla Model S: Mark W-J</li>
<li class="">Volt/Ampera: Mark W-J, Michael Jochum?</li>
<li class="">Track: Mark W-J</li>
<li class="">ZEVA BMS: Paul Rensel?</li>
</ul>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Could the developers of each of the above modules help
check that list and make sure I haven’t messed up? Let me know
if you would rather remain anonymous (I hope not, as you
deserve credit).</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">There is also the topic of overall contributors to the
project, but I think I can get the list of that from the git
logs and add somewhere in the manual.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Lastly, we have some ‘orphan’ vehicle projects in v2:
Kyburz, Zoe, Tazzari. If anybody has one of those cars and
wants to help, please let me know.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Regards, Mark.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 28 May 2019, at 3:14 AM, Michael Balzer
<<a href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">dexter@expeedo.de</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="">The "projects" board really doesn't help in
organizing vehicle contributors or support. A waste of
time.<br class="">
<br class="">
I think pulling in changes unreviewed wouldn't be good.
We've got some inexperienced contributors who can use a
little review and guidance. We also can see<br class="">
where the framework needs more documentation or rules.<br class="">
<br class="">
I never felt any lack of ownership when working on the
system. In the beginning I worked on my own fork and
felt free to do whatever I wanted with it. It was<br class="">
especially helpful being able to modify the framework in
my fork and include framework changes into my pull
requests. That made me feel being part of the whole<br class="">
project from the beginning instead of just writing a
plugin.<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">At the moment, the
vehicle modules are the most troublesome part of the
system. We get support calls / emails for these, but
no easy way to answer. I would really like to find a
way to ease and incentivise the development of vehicle
modules.<br class="">
</blockquote>
<br class="">
Btw, github forks have the "issues" menu disabled only
by default, that's just a config. If you enable the
issues menu on a fork, you're getting your own issues<br class="">
database. But I wouldn't like to get user support
requests as "issues".<br class="">
<br class="">
I think the main issue here is routing vehicle users to
vehicle developers. It's not easy to figure out who is
currently in charge for a vehicle adaption and<br class="">
how to contact them / file some issue or support
request.<br class="">
<br class="">
How about adding a vehicle contact section to the wiki
or main README.md and mirror that on our websites? That
way we're giving credit to contributors and solve<br class="">
the routing problem.<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br class="">
Michael<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Am 27.05.19 um 17:24 schrieb Greg D.:<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">Hi Mark,<br class="">
<br class="">
I think the process you used with me in the
development of the OBD2ECU<br class="">
process worked pretty well. I've always been the
owner of the code, but<br class="">
it was based on an initial template for system
services (CAN access, CLI<br class="">
processing, etc.) that you provided, and pull requests
got more or less<br class="">
of a review before the actual pull depending on
circumstance.<br class="">
<br class="">
I don't feel any less of an owner than if the code
were in a separate<br class="">
git repository. A lot of that is due to how you
manage the project, not<br class="">
where the bits are stored. In the end, it's all
compiled into one<br class="">
object module, and I don't think that part of the
process will (or<br class="">
should) change.<br class="">
<br class="">
Greg<br class="">
<br class="">
p.s. To the documentation task, please everyone don't
forget to update<br class="">
the table at the end of the user guide for what
metrics are available to<br class="">
the OBD2ECU translator, based on vehicle type. I
think we're missing<br class="">
whole columns for new vehicles, but haven't been
following the vehicle<br class="">
additions closely enough to know for sure..<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Mark Webb-Johnson wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">I view them as
modules, not really standalone projects or
libraries. Kind of like all those modular components
in systems like GEM, HomeBridge, logstash, etc. They
won’t work outside their given ecosystem.<br class="">
<br class="">
Just trying to think of a way of making it easier to
get involved / write vehicle support modules (and
trying to encourage fitting in with the existing
framework, rather than modifying it).<br class="">
<br class="">
Getting rid of having to merge pull requests is one
motivation, but it is really more towards giving a
sense of ownership to the vehicle module maintainer.
He/she can commit as they work on the module, and
both he/she and the main project simply pull in
whatever they have at the time of build.<br class="">
<br class="">
At the moment, the vehicle modules are the most
troublesome part of the system. We get support calls
/ emails for these, but no easy way to answer. I
would really like to find a way to ease and
incentivise the development of vehicle modules.<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards, Mark.<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">On 27 May 2019, at
7:55 AM, Stephen Casner <<a href="mailto:casner@acm.org" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">casner@acm.org</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
In the cases I'm aware of, submodules are
independent building blocks<br class="">
used by other projects. Our vehicle modules have
many dependencies<br class="">
upon the core of the OVMS system. I'm not sure if
that works.<br class="">
<br class="">
Also, if you want to make standard releases that
support all the<br class="">
vehicles then you would be dependent upon the
separate project owners<br class="">
to get their submodules ready.<br class="">
<br class="">
I assume that your motivation for considering this
change is to avoid<br class="">
the load of be merging pull requests. I
acknowledge the extra work,<br class="">
but in my view that extra level of filtering is
often a good thing.<br class="">
<br class="">
-- Steve<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
On Sun, 26 May 2019, Mark Webb-Johnson wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">Given that the
vehicle modules in v3 are pretty independent,
and don't seem to require any changes to the
core code to implement (other than a Kconfig
section, and a sub-directory in 'components'),
I'm considering a structural change.<br class="">
<br class="">
The proposal is to make each vehicle an
independent GitHub repository, and to use the
git submodule functionality to bring them in.
The advantage there is that those projects can
be split off and maintained by different people.
Project owners, looking after their own vehicle
types, could directly commit to their own
vehicle modules, without requiring this to be
centrally managed.<br class="">
<br class="">
What do people think? Is that a sensible way of
doing this?<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards, Mark.<br class="">
<br class="">
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Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal<br class="">
Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26<br class="">
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="160">--
Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal
Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
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