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    Olivier,<br>
    <br>
    neither module nor App limit the vehicle type to cars. The framework
    fits all types of vehicles.<br>
    <br>
    App support for a new vehicle is normally just adding the images,
    plus maybe minor logic changes for the fast charging detection.<br>
    <br>
    Regards,<br>
    Michael<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 30.05.19 um 09:58 schrieb Olivier:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAOuNP27ZkcMrvB_jsw1HdJ-cahCCy==uUQxYAAdMN6Ajx1oErQ@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">Hello Mark,
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Concerning vehicle, is it too soon to add support for
          motorcycle or scooter in the list (like Vectrix VX1) because
          the IOS App or Android App is not prepare for than ?</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>About restructuring/refreshing, have you plan or think
          about upgrade mailman 2.1 to mailman 3.x with something like
          hyperkitty ?</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>regards, Olivier</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le jeu. 30 mai 2019 à 08:49,
          Mark Webb-Johnson <<a href="mailto:mark@webb-johnson.net"
            moz-do-not-send="true">mark@webb-johnson.net</a>> a
          écrit :<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">
            <div>Michael, and others, thanks for your feedback.</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            It seems that the consensus is that the change review
            process is adding value (particularly for new developers),
            so let’s leave the components the way they are.
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>I have restructured the forums on <a
                href="http://www.openvehicles.com" target="_blank"
                moz-do-not-send="true">www.openvehicles.com</a> to have
              individual forums for each supported vehicle type. The
              updated forum system also now supports read/unread
              messages, and you can subscribe for eMail notifications
              (by user, topic, thread, and a host of other
              possibilities). For example, I went to the sections for
              Tesla Roadster and hit the ’subscribe’ button so I get
              notified of new posts in that section.</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>I see a couple of others users have stumbled upon that
              already, and added subscriptions. I am hoping users and
              developers for individual vehicle types will use that to
              help with supporting other users of their vehicle type
              (and from now on I will direct specific vehicle support
              questions to those forums).</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>I have also standardised the structure in the user
              guide, to give each current vehicle their own section, and
              have a standardised overview page for each vehicle type.</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>Regarding acknowledging developer's efforts, I think
              the vehicle sections in the advanced user guide is the
              best to keep this maintained. We can also acknowledge
              developers in the vehicle specific forum sections. I think
              it should be entirely up to the developer whether they
              provide contact information, but names of key contributors
              would be good to have (so people know who to thank).</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>
              <div>We can also publish this on our websites. What do you
                think about individual donate buttons (for where one
                developer is responsible for a vehicle type)? I am happy
                to do that, but would it be useful/helpful? I find that
                people mostly hit donate when asking for support, so the
                forums seem a good place for it.</div>
            </div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>To do that, we need a list of developers for each
              vehicle type. Working off git logs, I’ve come up with the
              following:</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>
              <ul class="gmail-m_-4672449598992641952MailOutline">
                <li>DBC: Mark W-J</li>
                <li>DEMO: Mark W-J</li>
                <li>Fiat 500e: Jakob Löw?</li>
                <li>Kia e-Niro: Geir Øyvind Vælidalo?</li>
                <li>Kia Soul EV: Geir Øyvind Vælidalo?</li>
                <li>Mitsubishi i-Miev: Thomas Bergo, Juerg Walz,
                  KommyKT, Tamás Kovács?</li>
                <li>Nissan Leaf: Tom Parker, Robin O’Leary, Anko Hanse?</li>
                <li>OBDII: Mark W-J</li>
                <li>Renault Twizy: Michael Balzer</li>
                <li>Smart ED: Martin Graml, Thomas Heuer, Dimitrie78?</li>
                <li>Think City: Hakon Markussen, Nikolay Shishkov?</li>
                <li>Tesla Roadster: Mark W-J, Michael Stegen, Sonny Chen</li>
                <li>Tesla Model S: Mark W-J</li>
                <li>Volt/Ampera: Mark W-J, Michael Jochum?</li>
                <li>Track: Mark W-J</li>
                <li>ZEVA BMS: Paul Rensel?</li>
              </ul>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Could the developers of each of the above modules
                help check that list and make sure I haven’t messed up?
                Let me know if you would rather remain anonymous (I hope
                not, as you deserve credit).</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>There is also the topic of overall contributors to
                the project, but I think I can get the list of that from
                the git logs and add somewhere in the manual.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Lastly, we have some ‘orphan’ vehicle projects in v2:
                Kyburz, Zoe, Tazzari. If anybody has one of those cars
                and wants to help, please let me know.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Regards, Mark.</div>
              <div><br>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div>On 28 May 2019, at 3:14 AM, Michael Balzer <<a
                      href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de" target="_blank"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">dexter@expeedo.de</a>>
                    wrote:</div>
                  <br
                    class="gmail-m_-4672449598992641952Apple-interchange-newline">
                  <div>
                    <div>The "projects" board really doesn't help in
                      organizing vehicle contributors or support. A
                      waste of time.<br>
                      <br>
                      I think pulling in changes unreviewed wouldn't be
                      good. We've got some inexperienced contributors
                      who can use a little review and guidance. We also
                      can see<br>
                      where the framework needs more documentation or
                      rules.<br>
                      <br>
                      I never felt any lack of ownership when working on
                      the system. In the beginning I worked on my own
                      fork and felt free to do whatever I wanted with
                      it. It was<br>
                      especially helpful being able to modify the
                      framework in my fork and include framework changes
                      into my pull requests. That made me feel being
                      part of the whole<br>
                      project from the beginning instead of just writing
                      a plugin.<br>
                      <br>
                      <blockquote type="cite">At the moment, the vehicle
                        modules are the most troublesome part of the
                        system. We get support calls / emails for these,
                        but no easy way to answer. I would really like
                        to find a way to ease and incentivise the
                        development of vehicle modules.<br>
                      </blockquote>
                      <br>
                      Btw, github forks have the "issues" menu disabled
                      only by default, that's just a config. If you
                      enable the issues menu on a fork, you're getting
                      your own issues<br>
                      database. But I wouldn't like to get user support
                      requests as "issues".<br>
                      <br>
                      I think the main issue here is routing vehicle
                      users to vehicle developers. It's not easy to
                      figure out who is currently in charge for a
                      vehicle adaption and<br>
                      how to contact them / file some issue or support
                      request.<br>
                      <br>
                      How about adding a vehicle contact section to the
                      wiki or main README.md and mirror that on our
                      websites? That way we're giving credit to
                      contributors and solve<br>
                      the routing problem.<br>
                      <br>
                      Regards,<br>
                      Michael<br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      Am 27.05.19 um 17:24 schrieb Greg D.:<br>
                      <blockquote type="cite">Hi Mark,<br>
                        <br>
                        I think the process you used with me in the
                        development of the OBD2ECU<br>
                        process worked pretty well.  I've always been
                        the owner of the code, but<br>
                        it was based on an initial template for system
                        services (CAN access, CLI<br>
                        processing, etc.) that you provided, and pull
                        requests got more or less<br>
                        of a review before the actual pull depending on
                        circumstance.<br>
                        <br>
                        I don't feel any less of an owner than if the
                        code were in a separate<br>
                        git repository.  A lot of that is due to how you
                        manage the project, not<br>
                        where the bits are stored.  In the end, it's all
                        compiled into one<br>
                        object module, and I don't think that part of
                        the process will (or<br>
                        should) change.<br>
                        <br>
                        Greg<br>
                        <br>
                        p.s.  To the documentation task, please everyone
                        don't forget to update<br>
                        the table at the end of the user guide for what
                        metrics are available to<br>
                        the OBD2ECU translator, based on vehicle type. 
                        I think we're missing<br>
                        whole columns for new vehicles, but haven't been
                        following the vehicle<br>
                        additions closely enough to know for sure..<br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        Mark Webb-Johnson wrote:<br>
                        <blockquote type="cite">I view them as modules,
                          not really standalone projects or libraries.
                          Kind of like all those modular components in
                          systems like GEM, HomeBridge, logstash, etc.
                          They won’t work outside their given ecosystem.<br>
                          <br>
                          Just trying to think of a way of making it
                          easier to get involved / write vehicle support
                          modules (and trying to encourage fitting in
                          with the existing framework, rather than
                          modifying it).<br>
                          <br>
                          Getting rid of having to merge pull requests
                          is one motivation, but it is really more
                          towards giving a sense of ownership to the
                          vehicle module maintainer. He/she can commit
                          as they work on the module, and both he/she
                          and the main project simply pull in whatever
                          they have at the time of build.<br>
                          <br>
                          At the moment, the vehicle modules are the
                          most troublesome part of the system. We get
                          support calls / emails for these, but no easy
                          way to answer. I would really like to find a
                          way to ease and incentivise the development of
                          vehicle modules.<br>
                          <br>
                          Regards, Mark.<br>
                          <br>
                          <blockquote type="cite">On 27 May 2019, at
                            7:55 AM, Stephen Casner <<a
                              href="mailto:casner@acm.org"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">casner@acm.org</a>>
                            wrote:<br>
                            <br>
                            In the cases I'm aware of, submodules are
                            independent building blocks<br>
                            used by other projects.  Our vehicle modules
                            have many dependencies<br>
                            upon the core of the OVMS system.  I'm not
                            sure if that works.<br>
                            <br>
                            Also, if you want to make standard releases
                            that support all the<br>
                            vehicles then you would be dependent upon
                            the separate project owners<br>
                            to get their submodules ready.<br>
                            <br>
                            I assume that your motivation for
                            considering this change is to avoid<br>
                            the load of be merging pull requests.  I
                            acknowledge the extra work,<br>
                            but in my view that extra level of filtering
                            is often a good thing.<br>
                            <br>
                                                      -- Steve<br>
                            <br>
                            <br>
                            On Sun, 26 May 2019, Mark Webb-Johnson
                            wrote:<br>
                            <br>
                            <blockquote type="cite">Given that the
                              vehicle modules in v3 are pretty
                              independent, and don't seem to require any
                              changes to the core code to implement
                              (other than a Kconfig section, and a
                              sub-directory in 'components'), I'm
                              considering a structural change.<br>
                              <br>
                              The proposal is to make each vehicle an
                              independent GitHub repository, and to use
                              the git submodule functionality to bring
                              them in. The advantage there is that those
                              projects can be split off and maintained
                              by different people. Project owners,
                              looking after their own vehicle types,
                              could directly commit to their own vehicle
                              modules, without requiring this to be
                              centrally managed.<br>
                              <br>
                              What do people think? Is that a sensible
                              way of doing this?<br>
                              <br>
                              Regards, Mark.<br>
                              <br>
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                      </blockquote>
                      <br>
                      -- <br>
                      Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256
                      Ennepetal<br>
                      Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26<br>
                      <br>
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    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="160">-- 
Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal
Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
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