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    Hi Mark,<br>
    <br>
    Ha. Well, that does sort of explain things, except how the 12v
    battery would ever be flagged as failed if it's being kept at a
    constant 13.78 volts.  Perhaps the car periodically does a
    "selftest" on it by removing the power and seeing what it does.  My
    UPS does that.<br>
    <br>
    So, from your description, the alert for the Roadster's 12v battery
    actually is an alert for an APS failure.  At least, a low APS
    output; I presume a sudden total failure would drop our supply
    before we could send out the alert.  It's a lot less likely than the
    12v battery failure, but probably more important.  If we can get the
    reference voltage set right, perhaps it should be turned back on?<br>
    <br>
    Greg<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Mark Webb-Johnson wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:29F4E0A9-85DF-4A54-8219-1725538E0CE0@webb-johnson.net">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      Greg,
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">The roadster has:</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">
        <ul class="MailOutline">
          <li class="">APS: Auxiliary Power Supply. Generated by a DC-DC
            converter in the ESS and producing about 13.5v. There are
            two APS outputs - one for the PEM and one for the rest of
            the car.<br class="">
            <br class="">
          </li>
          <li class="">BPS: Backup Power Supply. 1.x cars have this from
            the first two sheets. 2.x cars have this from the little 12v
            battery in the front wheel arch. This is used to power
            emergency systems (hazard lights, etc) should the APS fail.
            In normal operation, this is not used at all.</li>
        </ul>
      </div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">I’ve never really bothered to look much further than
        that. From my understanding, the BPS is irrelevant to OVMS - we
        never see it and it is certainly not what is powering that 12v
        line we are on. I think the 13.5v vs 11.4v is different states
        of the APS.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Regards, Mark.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
        <div>
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">On 21 May 2018, at 9:16 AM, Greg D. <<a
                href="mailto:gregd2350@gmail.com" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">gregd2350@gmail.com</a>>
              wrote:</div>
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
            <div class="">
              <div class="">Hi Mark,<br class="">
                <br class="">
                So I'm really confused how the Roadster is wired.  My
                own car (a 2.0<br class="">
                model) had its 12v battery replaced about 2 years ago.
                 When we did, I<br class="">
                brought along some wires and a PowerPole connector, and
                asked the Tesla<br class="">
                tech if they could wire that in at the battery, so that
                I could "jump"<br class="">
                the car if necessary.  As a side effect, that's given me
                a peek into the<br class="">
                battery's voltage without having to take half the car
                apart. <br class="">
                <br class="">
                The OVMS module is attached to the diagnostic connector
                under the dash,<br class="">
                as usual.  It tells me that the 12v supply is at about
                13v when the car<br class="">
                is awake, and 11.4 when asleep.  Uncalibrated, that
                sounds about right. <br class="">
                But the battery (via the jumper cable) stays at 13.7,
                regardless of the<br class="">
                car's sleep state.<br class="">
                <br class="">
                At the last service I challenged the service folks to
                explain what was<br class="">
                going on.  They couldn't.  We thought that when the car
                was asleep, the<br class="">
                only systems alive were being powered by the battery
                alone, and that the<br class="">
                DC-DC converter was only active when it was awake.  That
                would explain<br class="">
                the OVMS readings, but not that of the 12v battery.  If
                the DC-DC was<br class="">
                always active, that would explain the battery readings,
                but not the OVMS.<br class="">
                <br class="">
                How can they both be true?<br class="">
                <br class="">
                Greg<br class="">
                <br class="">
                <br class="">
                Mark Webb-Johnson wrote:<br class="">
                <blockquote type="cite" class="">Roadster doesn’t have a
                  12V battery. Ok, it does, but it is only used to power
                  emergency systems and not OVMS or the majority of the
                  car.<br class="">
                  <br class="">
                  The 12V power for OVMS comes from the main first
                  sheets in 1.5 car, or a dc-dc converter in 2.x cars. I
                  haven’t worked out how to get a reliable 12v reference
                  for that, so disabled the alerts for the moment. If we
                  do manage to read the actual 12v voltage, it will be
                  from a can bus message and will have to be handled
                  specifically for Tesla Roadster.<br class="">
                  <br class="">
                  Regards, Mark<br class="">
                  <br class="">
                  <blockquote type="cite" class="">On 20 May 2018, at
                    2:44 PM, Michael Balzer <<a
                      href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de" class=""
                      moz-do-not-send="true">dexter@expeedo.de</a>>
                    wrote:<br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    Greg,<br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    if a car cannot provide the 12v charging flag it has
                    two options:<br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    a) disable the 12v alert system by overriding the
                    methods (as Mark did)<br class="">
                    b) provide a suitable reference value at startup.<br
                      class="">
                    <br class="">
                    Option b can be done by yourself / script:<br
                      class="">
                    <br class="">
                    metric set v.b.12v.voltage.ref 12.65<br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    …or you can raise the threshold from 1.6 to whatever
                    fits your readings.<br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    Maybe I'll add a config for the initial reference
                    voltage on startup, as that can also be wrong due to
                    12v noise.<br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    Regards,<br class="">
                    Michael<br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    <blockquote type="cite" class="">Am 20.05.2018 um
                      01:10 schrieb Greg D.:<br class="">
                      Thanks for the overview, Michael.  I have not
                      experienced the v2 module,<br class="">
                      so didn't know how this worked.<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      If the reference is taken at boot, then plugging
                      the module in with the<br class="">
                      car awake would give a too-high value vs when it's
                      asleep.  I guess the<br class="">
                      idea is that it should reset itself to a more
                      reasonable value after the<br class="">
                      first charging session, yet I'm not seeing that.
                       It seems to be stuck<br class="">
                      at 13v, which presumably was what it recorded at
                      the reboot when I was<br class="">
                      playing with the SD card (car was awake and
                      apparently annoyed at the<br class="">
                      time).  I'm on the .005 code, which apparently
                      pre-dates Mark's commits,<br class="">
                      though the commit was 30-April and the .005 build
                      is dated 1-May...  {shrug}<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      The algorithm sounds like it is intended to detect
                      a weak battery by<br class="">
                      observing its behavior after being charged, but is
                      this sensing<br class="">
                      available on all cars?  I'm guessing not, and that
                      the Roadster not one<br class="">
                      of them.  For those that aren't, couldn't we just
                      have a configured /<br class="">
                      configurable threshold that would trigger the
                      alert?  Regardless of<br class="">
                      vehicle type, 12v battery health is an important
                      metric to watch.<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      Since I'm currently waiting for the modem issue to
                      repeat, I'll just<br class="">
                      live with the alerts for now (vs resetting the
                      module to capture a lower<br class="">
                      threshold value), and see what happens with the
                      .006 software.  The car<br class="">
                      just completed its periodic top-off, generating
                      another pair of events<br class="">
                      (12 restored, followed by 12v alert).<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      Thanks again for the explanation,<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      Greg<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      Michael Balzer wrote:<br class="">
                      <blockquote type="cite" class="">Greg,<br class="">
                        <br class="">
                        Mark disabled the 12V alerts on the roadster
                        firmware some commits ago.<br class="">
                        <br class="">
                        Regarding the alert configuration:<br class="">
                        <br class="">
                        commit 9c1a991a9a27de8afdc9fd408262a2fe0be7aef4<br
                          class="">
                        Author: Michael Balzer <<a
                          href="mailto:balzer@expeedo.de" class=""
                          moz-do-not-send="true">balzer@expeedo.de</a>><br
                          class="">
                        Date:   Mon Apr 30 22:39:05 2018 +0200<br
                          class="">
                        <br class="">
                          Vehicle: 12V battery monitoring & alert<br
                          class="">
                        <br class="">
                          New configs:<br class="">
                          - vehicle [12v.alert] = 1.6       Voltage drop
                        alert threshold in V vs. reference<br class="">
                        <br class="">
                          New metrics:<br class="">
                          - v.b.12v.voltage.ref             12V
                        reference voltage [V]<br class="">
                          - v.b.12v.voltage.alert           Alert status
                        (bool)<br class="">
                        <br class="">
                        <br class="">
                        This works like the old V2 12V monitoring, just
                        a bit improved. The reference voltage is taken
                        after max 15 minutes calmdown time after 12V
                        charging stops. The<br class="">
                        initial reference is the first voltage measured
                        at boot.<br class="">
                        <br class="">
                        Also, the AD conversion needs to be calibrated
                        for each module, to compensate component
                        tolerances. If you haven't done that for your
                        modules yet, their 12V<br class="">
                        measurements will differ. To calibrate, measure
                        your real 12V level and change config system.adc
                        factor12v accordingly for each module.<br
                          class="">
                        <br class="">
                        Regards,<br class="">
                        Michael<br class="">
                        <br class="">
                        <br class="">
                        <blockquote type="cite" class="">Am 19.05.2018
                          um 02:26 schrieb Greg D.:<br class="">
                          Hi folks,<br class="">
                          <br class="">
                          I'm getting alerts from OVMS that my 12v
                          battery is failing, as it's<br class="">
                          dropped below the threshold, which is set to
                          13v for some reason.  So I<br class="">
                          get a notification every time the car
                          transitions from awake to asleep. <br
                            class="">
                          <br class="">
                          I don't see a configuration item, nor anything
                          in the OVMS v2 app. <br class="">
                          Oddly, the threshold is 13.2 for my v3.0 proto
                          module, but I can't find<br class="">
                          a config item there either.<br class="">
                          <br class="">
                          How do I change the threshold? <br class="">
                          <br class="">
                          Greg<br class="">
                          <br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
                          OvmsDev mailing list<br class="">
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                            class="" moz-do-not-send="true">OvmsDev@lists.openvehicles.com</a><br
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                    -- <br class="">
                    Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256
                    Ennepetal<br class="">
                    Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26<br
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