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It's sufficient to provide additional power to USB, but it needs to
be a constant supply (the Twizy 12V port in the glove box is
switched).<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 17.05.2018 um 12:14 schrieb Michael
Balzer:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:b7ca3e8e-6edf-5402-77ba-e55f0a803b75@expeedo.de">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
Is it sufficient to provide secondary power at the USB port or
does the 12V supply needs to be detached?<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 17.05.2018 um 12:00 schrieb Mark
Webb-Johnson:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:F90CAE64-94B9-4A89-982F-4BCA63BEF079@webb-johnson.net">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8">
<div>Other option I tried is to power from USB. But maybe not so
easy in a Twizy?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I should have new chips early next week. Arranging now.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards, Mark</div>
<div><br>
On 17 May 2018, at 5:48 PM, Michael Balzer <<a
href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de" moz-do-not-send="true">dexter@expeedo.de</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8">
Wow. Confirmed, speedup is at least factor 5.<br>
<br>
And better yet, the fsync() overhead is reduced from ~50 ms
to < 10 ms as well, the performance impact of SD logging
is now fully acceptable for every day use.<br>
<br>
All of my beta testers use SD cards to provide debug logs.
Some also have been doing CAN logging, which helped debug
some timing issues.<br>
<br>
I'll need another 3.1 module anyway, but the testers will
most likely want to continue using their modules. I'll
forward your rework offer and the info on how to solve this
themselves if they're capable of doing micro-soldering.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Michael<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 17.05.2018 um 10:40 schrieb
Mark Webb-Johnson:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:C33A2DBF-2A19-4423-B3CC-D38F3534A1FA@webb-johnson.net">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
It is a lot faster when working correctly. To me, it seems
much more than 25%. Maybe four or five times faster?
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">You can try:</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none;
padding: 0px;" class="">
<div class="">config set sdcard maxfreq.khz 20000</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="">
<div>then reboot and power from USB. Then try your speed
test. Perhaps vfs cp from SD to SD to test?</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>Regards, Mark.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 17 May 2018, at 4:15 PM, Michael
Balzer <<a href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">dexter@expeedo.de</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
Thanks for the analysis and solution!<br
class="">
<br class="">
What kind of speedup is achievable by replacing
the cp2102? Is it just linear 16 → 20 MHz = 25%?<br
class="">
<br class="">
Or does this also solve hidden retransmission
issues?<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<tt class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:balzer@leela:%7E/esp/Open-Vehicle-Monitoring-System-3/vehicle/OVMS.V3"
moz-do-not-send="true">balzer@leela:~/esp/Open-Vehicle-Monitoring-System-3/vehicle/OVMS.V3</a>>
time ssh dexze85.local "vfs ls /sd/logs"</tt><tt
class=""><br class="">
</tt><tt class=""> 541.7k 22-Apr-2018 22:34
can-180422</tt><tt class=""><br class="">
</tt><tt class=""> 449.0k 17-May-2018 09:56
log</tt><tt class=""><br class="">
</tt><tt class=""> 580.8k 01-May-2018 18:15
dm</tt><tt class=""><br class="">
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log.20180517-061451</tt><tt class=""><br
class="">
</tt><tt class=""><br class="">
</tt><b class=""><tt class="">real 0m18.965s</tt></b><tt
class=""><br class="">
</tt><tt class="">user 0m0.018s</tt><tt
class=""><br class="">
</tt><tt class="">sys 0m0.009s</tt><tt
class=""><br class="">
</tt><br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 17.05.2018 um
04:22 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:56C111E5-AC24-4BE2-8800-61616261D757@webb-johnson.net"
class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break:
after-white-space;" class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Good grief. A year into this,
and still writing about SD CARD issues
with ESP32. If I could get into a room
with the engineer who decided to share
boot strapping pins with SDCARD pins, and
to hard wire the SDIO controller to
specific pins, I would literally try to
slap some sense into him.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The China guys and I have been
struggling for the past couple of months
trying to work out why we can’t get as
much speed out of the SD CARD as we
wanted. If we raise the speed to the
normal 20MHz, we randomly get errors
(timeouts, checksums, etc). It looked like
interference on the bus lines, but scoping
those we can’t find any. Dropping the
speed to 16MHz works around the issue, but
SD CARD accesses are slow.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Then, we worked out it wasn’t
random. It was based on whether we were
powering from USB or external 12V. On the
bench it works fine. In the car the
problem appears. Simply put, if the USB
was plugged in the ‘interference’
disappeared. If USB was unplugged, it came
back. USB + external 12V combination also
didn’t suffer from the issue, so the
problem is not coming from the 12v side.
The issue often appeared on only the
second test of SD CARD, not the first. We
didn’t see this problem on either the v3.0
developer modules, or v3.1 prototypes.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">We looked at the capacitors
and pull-up resistors on that side of the
circuit, without success. Whatever we did
made little difference (or randomly
changed things for the better/worse). We
thought maybe ground-line interference,
but nope. We spent some time looking at
C20, C22, C23 to see if the manufacturers
had messed up the component values - they
hadn’t.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Anyway, to cut a long story
short, we finally found the culprit. The
CP2102 chip itself.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">We’d already had to change the
power supply design early on in the
project to cope with a bug in CP2102 not
correctly handling USB host disconnect and
not properly going into suspend mode (to
reduce power consumption of cp2101 circuit
when usb was disconnected) - our current
design completely powers down the cp2102
chip when the USB cable is disconnected.
Michael Stegen had previously warned me
about clones of this chip (see <a
href="https://wiki.sha2017.org/w/Projects:Badge"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.sha2017.org/w/Projects:Badge</a>
and what they went through), and we had
added the extra resistor already to cope
with that eventuality. But, from what we
can tell this is not a clone part issue.
Here is what we found:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<ol class="MailOutline">
<li class="">OVMS v3.0 and early v3.1
prototypes use CP2102 v1412+. For that
chip, when the USB cable is
disconnected, CSL-TXD is 3.3v.</li>
<li class="">OVMS v3.1 first production
batch use a newer CP2102 v1708+. For
that chip, when the USB cable is
disconnected, CSL-TXD is pulled down
to 0.78v.</li>
<li class="">We have replaced the cp2102
on a v3.1 first production module with
v1412+, and SD CARD resumes normal
operation (even with usb
disconnected).</li>
<li class="">The version number seems to
be a date code. YYWW (year, week), I
guess.</li>
<li class="">We have absolutely no idea
why this would be affecting the SD
CARD performance or interference.
Somehow, that CSL-TXD line is going
through the ESP32 chip and affecting
the SDIO controller (perhaps related
to the bootstrapping pins dual use).
The interference we see is inside the
ESP32, not on the lines going from
ESP32 to the SDCARD (which is why we
couldn’t see it on the scope).</li>
</ol>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I tried shutting down the pins
on the ESP32 for CSL-TXD and CSL-RXD, to
see if I could work around the problem in
firmware, but couldn’t get it to work.
There is no way of knowing whether the USB
is connected, and even if we did know,
setting CSL-TXD and CSL-RXD pins to output
mode, or float, doesn’t seem to make any
difference.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The good news is that we’ve at
least identified the problem. We are (a)
checking the revision of cp2102 chip in
the upcoming production batch, and (b)
changing QC procedures to set SD CARD bus
speed to default (20MHz) and randomly test
modules twice on 12V power. Latest
production batch is now using v1742+, and
that has been tested as working. Going
forward, we can resolve this.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">As for the first production
batch units, they are what they are. For
normal SD CARD operation (copying files,
flashing firmware, etc), it makes little
difference. I guess most users don’t even
have an SD CARD inserted. The speed
limitation really only becomes an issue if
you are trying to log lots of data to SD
CARD (such as CAN bus dumps). If the USB
is connected, you can 'config set sdcard
maxfreq.khz 20000’ and it will work
faster. The CP2102 chip can be changed,
and I’ll do that for anyone that needs it.
I’m asking China to send me some from the
latest production batch that we know
works. Replacement is relatively
straightforward, but involves
micro-soldering (the cp2102 is a surface
mount chip, very small footprint, with
lots of other components near it on the
board).</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Regards, Mark.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br class="">
<pre class="" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="160">--
Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal
Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
</pre>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br
class="">
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class="" moz-do-not-send="true">OvmsDev@lists.openvehicles.com</a><br
class="">
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href="http://lists.openvehicles.com/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.openvehicles.com/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev</a><br
class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="160">--
Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal
Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
</pre>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>OvmsDev mailing list</span><br>
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moz-do-not-send="true">OvmsDev@lists.openvehicles.com</a></span><br>
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href="http://lists.openvehicles.com/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.openvehicles.com/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev</a></span><br>
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<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
OvmsDev mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OvmsDev@lists.openvehicles.com" moz-do-not-send="true">OvmsDev@lists.openvehicles.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openvehicles.com/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.openvehicles.com/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="160">--
Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal
Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
</pre>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
OvmsDev mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OvmsDev@lists.openvehicles.com">OvmsDev@lists.openvehicles.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openvehicles.com/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev">http://lists.openvehicles.com/mailman/listinfo/ovmsdev</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="160">--
Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal
Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
</pre>
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