<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div></div><div>Sufficient to supply usb in addition to 12v. It just needs that cp2102 chip powered up.</div><div><br>On 17 May 2018, at 6:14 PM, Michael Balzer <<a href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de">dexter@expeedo.de</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
Is it sufficient to provide secondary power at the USB port or does
the 12V supply needs to be detached?<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 17.05.2018 um 12:00 schrieb Mark
Webb-Johnson:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:F90CAE64-94B9-4A89-982F-4BCA63BEF079@webb-johnson.net">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div>Other option I tried is to power from USB. But maybe not so
easy in a Twizy?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I should have new chips early next week. Arranging now.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards, Mark</div>
<div><br>
On 17 May 2018, at 5:48 PM, Michael Balzer <<a href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de" moz-do-not-send="true">dexter@expeedo.de</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8">
Wow. Confirmed, speedup is at least factor 5.<br>
<br>
And better yet, the fsync() overhead is reduced from ~50 ms to
< 10 ms as well, the performance impact of SD logging is
now fully acceptable for every day use.<br>
<br>
All of my beta testers use SD cards to provide debug logs.
Some also have been doing CAN logging, which helped debug some
timing issues.<br>
<br>
I'll need another 3.1 module anyway, but the testers will most
likely want to continue using their modules. I'll forward your
rework offer and the info on how to solve this themselves if
they're capable of doing micro-soldering.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Michael<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 17.05.2018 um 10:40 schrieb
Mark Webb-Johnson:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:C33A2DBF-2A19-4423-B3CC-D38F3534A1FA@webb-johnson.net">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
It is a lot faster when working correctly. To me, it seems
much more than 25%. Maybe four or five times faster?
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">You can try:</div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none;
padding: 0px;" class="">
<div class="">config set sdcard maxfreq.khz 20000</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="">
<div>then reboot and power from USB. Then try your speed
test. Perhaps vfs cp from SD to SD to test?</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>Regards, Mark.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 17 May 2018, at 4:15 PM, Michael
Balzer <<a href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">dexter@expeedo.de</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
Thanks for the analysis and solution!<br class="">
<br class="">
What kind of speedup is achievable by replacing
the cp2102? Is it just linear 16 → 20 MHz = 25%?<br class="">
<br class="">
Or does this also solve hidden retransmission
issues?<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<tt class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:balzer@leela:%7E/esp/Open-Vehicle-Monitoring-System-3/vehicle/OVMS.V3" moz-do-not-send="true">balzer@leela:~/esp/Open-Vehicle-Monitoring-System-3/vehicle/OVMS.V3</a>>
time ssh dexze85.local "vfs ls /sd/logs"</tt><tt class=""><br class="">
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</tt><tt class=""><br class="">
</tt><b class=""><tt class="">real 0m18.965s</tt></b><tt class=""><br class="">
</tt><tt class="">user 0m0.018s</tt><tt class=""><br class="">
</tt><tt class="">sys 0m0.009s</tt><tt class=""><br class="">
</tt><br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 17.05.2018 um
04:22 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:56C111E5-AC24-4BE2-8800-61616261D757@webb-johnson.net" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break:
after-white-space;" class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Good grief. A year into this,
and still writing about SD CARD issues with
ESP32. If I could get into a room with the
engineer who decided to share boot strapping
pins with SDCARD pins, and to hard wire the
SDIO controller to specific pins, I would
literally try to slap some sense into him.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The China guys and I have been
struggling for the past couple of months
trying to work out why we can’t get as much
speed out of the SD CARD as we wanted. If we
raise the speed to the normal 20MHz, we
randomly get errors (timeouts, checksums,
etc). It looked like interference on the bus
lines, but scoping those we can’t find any.
Dropping the speed to 16MHz works around the
issue, but SD CARD accesses are slow.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Then, we worked out it wasn’t
random. It was based on whether we were
powering from USB or external 12V. On the
bench it works fine. In the car the problem
appears. Simply put, if the USB was plugged
in the ‘interference’ disappeared. If USB
was unplugged, it came back. USB + external
12V combination also didn’t suffer from the
issue, so the problem is not coming from the
12v side. The issue often appeared on only
the second test of SD CARD, not the first.
We didn’t see this problem on either the
v3.0 developer modules, or v3.1 prototypes.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">We looked at the capacitors and
pull-up resistors on that side of the
circuit, without success. Whatever we did
made little difference (or randomly changed
things for the better/worse). We thought
maybe ground-line interference, but nope. We
spent some time looking at C20, C22, C23 to
see if the manufacturers had messed up the
component values - they hadn’t.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Anyway, to cut a long story
short, we finally found the culprit. The
CP2102 chip itself.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">We’d already had to change the
power supply design early on in the project
to cope with a bug in CP2102 not correctly
handling USB host disconnect and not
properly going into suspend mode (to reduce
power consumption of cp2101 circuit when usb
was disconnected) - our current design
completely powers down the cp2102 chip when
the USB cable is disconnected. Michael
Stegen had previously warned me about clones
of this chip (see <a href="https://wiki.sha2017.org/w/Projects:Badge" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.sha2017.org/w/Projects:Badge</a>
and what they went through), and we had
added the extra resistor already to cope
with that eventuality. But, from what we can
tell this is not a clone part issue. Here is
what we found:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<ol class="MailOutline">
<li class="">OVMS v3.0 and early v3.1
prototypes use CP2102 v1412+. For that
chip, when the USB cable is
disconnected, CSL-TXD is 3.3v.</li>
<li class="">OVMS v3.1 first production
batch use a newer CP2102 v1708+. For
that chip, when the USB cable is
disconnected, CSL-TXD is pulled down to
0.78v.</li>
<li class="">We have replaced the cp2102
on a v3.1 first production module with
v1412+, and SD CARD resumes normal
operation (even with usb disconnected).</li>
<li class="">The version number seems to
be a date code. YYWW (year, week), I
guess.</li>
<li class="">We have absolutely no idea
why this would be affecting the SD CARD
performance or interference. Somehow,
that CSL-TXD line is going through the
ESP32 chip and affecting the SDIO
controller (perhaps related to the
bootstrapping pins dual use). The
interference we see is inside the ESP32,
not on the lines going from ESP32 to the
SDCARD (which is why we couldn’t see it
on the scope).</li>
</ol>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I tried shutting down the pins
on the ESP32 for CSL-TXD and CSL-RXD, to see
if I could work around the problem in
firmware, but couldn’t get it to work. There
is no way of knowing whether the USB is
connected, and even if we did know, setting
CSL-TXD and CSL-RXD pins to output mode, or
float, doesn’t seem to make any difference.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The good news is that we’ve at
least identified the problem. We are (a)
checking the revision of cp2102 chip in the
upcoming production batch, and (b) changing
QC procedures to set SD CARD bus speed to
default (20MHz) and randomly test modules
twice on 12V power. Latest production batch
is now using v1742+, and that has been
tested as working. Going forward, we can
resolve this.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">As for the first production
batch units, they are what they are. For
normal SD CARD operation (copying files,
flashing firmware, etc), it makes little
difference. I guess most users don’t even
have an SD CARD inserted. The speed
limitation really only becomes an issue if
you are trying to log lots of data to SD
CARD (such as CAN bus dumps). If the USB is
connected, you can 'config set sdcard
maxfreq.khz 20000’ and it will work faster.
The CP2102 chip can be changed, and I’ll do
that for anyone that needs it. I’m asking
China to send me some from the latest
production batch that we know works.
Replacement is relatively straightforward,
but involves micro-soldering (the cp2102 is
a surface mount chip, very small footprint,
with lots of other components near it on the
board).</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Regards, Mark.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="160">--
Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal
Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
</pre>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="160">--
Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal
Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
</pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
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Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal
Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
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