<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div></div><div>Sufficient to supply usb in addition to 12v. It just needs that cp2102 chip powered up.</div><div><br>On 17 May 2018, at 6:14 PM, Michael Balzer <<a href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de">dexter@expeedo.de</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
  
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
  
  
    Is it sufficient to provide secondary power at the USB port or does
    the 12V supply needs to be detached?<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 17.05.2018 um 12:00 schrieb Mark
      Webb-Johnson:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:F90CAE64-94B9-4A89-982F-4BCA63BEF079@webb-johnson.net">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      <div>Other option I tried is to power from USB. But maybe not so
        easy in a Twizy?</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>I should have new chips early next week. Arranging now.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Regards, Mark</div>
      <div><br>
        On 17 May 2018, at 5:48 PM, Michael Balzer <<a href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de" moz-do-not-send="true">dexter@expeedo.de</a>>
        wrote:<br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div>
          <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
            charset=utf-8">
          Wow. Confirmed, speedup is at least factor 5.<br>
          <br>
          And better yet, the fsync() overhead is reduced from ~50 ms to
          < 10 ms as well, the performance impact of SD logging is
          now fully acceptable for every day use.<br>
          <br>
          All of my beta testers use SD cards to provide debug logs.
          Some also have been doing CAN logging, which helped debug some
          timing issues.<br>
          <br>
          I'll need another 3.1 module anyway, but the testers will most
          likely want to continue using their modules. I'll forward your
          rework offer and the info on how to solve this themselves if
          they're capable of doing micro-soldering.<br>
          <br>
          Regards,<br>
          Michael<br>
          <br>
          <br>
          <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 17.05.2018 um 10:40 schrieb
            Mark Webb-Johnson:<br>
          </div>
          <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:C33A2DBF-2A19-4423-B3CC-D38F3534A1FA@webb-johnson.net">
            <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
              charset=utf-8">
            <div class=""><br class="">
            </div>
            It is a lot faster when working correctly. To me, it seems
            much more than 25%. Maybe four or five times faster?
            <div class=""><br class="">
            </div>
            <div class="">You can try:</div>
            <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none;
              padding: 0px;" class="">
              <div class="">config set sdcard maxfreq.khz 20000</div>
            </blockquote>
            <div class="">
              <div>then reboot and power from USB. Then try your speed
                test. Perhaps vfs cp from SD to SD to test?</div>
              <div><br class="">
              </div>
              <div>Regards, Mark.</div>
              <div><br class="">
              </div>
              <div>
                <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                  <div class="">On 17 May 2018, at 4:15 PM, Michael
                    Balzer <<a href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">dexter@expeedo.de</a>>
                    wrote:</div>
                  <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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                      charset=utf-8" class="">
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                      Thanks for the analysis and solution!<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      What kind of speedup is achievable by replacing
                      the cp2102? Is it just linear 16 → 20 MHz = 25%?<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      Or does this also solve hidden retransmission
                      issues?<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      <tt class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:balzer@leela:%7E/esp/Open-Vehicle-Monitoring-System-3/vehicle/OVMS.V3" moz-do-not-send="true">balzer@leela:~/esp/Open-Vehicle-Monitoring-System-3/vehicle/OVMS.V3</a>>
                        time ssh dexze85.local "vfs ls /sd/logs"</tt><tt class=""><br class="">
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                      </tt><b class=""><tt class="">real    0m18.965s</tt></b><tt class=""><br class="">
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                      <br class="">
                      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 17.05.2018 um
                        04:22 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:<br class="">
                      </div>
                      <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:56C111E5-AC24-4BE2-8800-61616261D757@webb-johnson.net" class="">
                        <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class="">
                        <div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word;
                          -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break:
                          after-white-space;" class="">
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div class="">Good grief. A year into this,
                            and still writing about SD CARD issues with
                            ESP32. If I could get into a room with the
                            engineer who decided to share boot strapping
                            pins with SDCARD pins, and to hard wire the
                            SDIO controller to specific pins, I would
                            literally try to slap some sense into him.</div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div class="">The China guys and I have been
                            struggling for the past couple of months
                            trying to work out why we can’t get as much
                            speed out of the SD CARD as we wanted. If we
                            raise the speed to the normal 20MHz, we
                            randomly get errors (timeouts, checksums,
                            etc). It looked like interference on the bus
                            lines, but scoping those we can’t find any.
                            Dropping the speed to 16MHz works around the
                            issue, but SD CARD accesses are slow.</div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div class="">Then, we worked out it wasn’t
                            random. It was based on whether we were
                            powering from USB or external 12V. On the
                            bench it works fine. In the car the problem
                            appears. Simply put, if the USB was plugged
                            in the ‘interference’ disappeared. If USB
                            was unplugged, it came back. USB + external
                            12V combination also didn’t suffer from the
                            issue, so the problem is not coming from the
                            12v side. The issue often appeared on only
                            the second test of SD CARD, not the first.
                            We didn’t see this problem on either the
                            v3.0 developer modules, or v3.1 prototypes.</div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div class="">We looked at the capacitors and
                            pull-up resistors on that side of the
                            circuit, without success. Whatever we did
                            made little difference (or randomly changed
                            things for the better/worse). We thought
                            maybe ground-line interference, but nope. We
                            spent some time looking at C20, C22, C23 to
                            see if the manufacturers had messed up the
                            component values - they hadn’t.</div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div class="">Anyway, to cut a long story
                            short, we finally found the culprit. The
                            CP2102 chip itself.</div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div class="">We’d already had to change the
                            power supply design early on in the project
                            to cope with a bug in CP2102 not correctly
                            handling USB host disconnect and not
                            properly going into suspend mode (to reduce
                            power consumption of cp2101 circuit when usb
                            was disconnected) - our current design
                            completely powers down the cp2102 chip when
                            the USB cable is disconnected. Michael
                            Stegen had previously warned me about clones
                            of this chip (see <a href="https://wiki.sha2017.org/w/Projects:Badge" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.sha2017.org/w/Projects:Badge</a>
                            and what they went through), and we had
                            added the extra resistor already to cope
                            with that eventuality. But, from what we can
                            tell this is not a clone part issue. Here is
                            what we found:</div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div class="">
                            <ol class="MailOutline">
                              <li class="">OVMS v3.0 and early v3.1
                                prototypes use CP2102 v1412+. For that
                                chip, when the USB cable is
                                disconnected, CSL-TXD is 3.3v.</li>
                              <li class="">OVMS v3.1 first production
                                batch use a newer CP2102 v1708+. For
                                that chip, when the USB cable is
                                disconnected, CSL-TXD is pulled down to
                                0.78v.</li>
                              <li class="">We have replaced the cp2102
                                on a v3.1 first production module with
                                v1412+, and SD CARD resumes normal
                                operation (even with usb disconnected).</li>
                              <li class="">The version number seems to
                                be a date code. YYWW (year, week), I
                                guess.</li>
                              <li class="">We have absolutely no idea
                                why this would be affecting the SD CARD
                                performance or interference. Somehow,
                                that CSL-TXD line is going through the
                                ESP32 chip and affecting the  SDIO
                                controller (perhaps related to the
                                bootstrapping pins dual use). The
                                interference we see is inside the ESP32,
                                not on the lines going from ESP32 to the
                                SDCARD (which is why we couldn’t see it
                                on the scope).</li>
                            </ol>
                          </div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div class="">I tried shutting down the pins
                            on the ESP32 for CSL-TXD and CSL-RXD, to see
                            if I could work around the problem in
                            firmware, but couldn’t get it to work. There
                            is no way of knowing whether the USB is
                            connected, and even if we did know, setting
                            CSL-TXD and CSL-RXD pins to output mode, or
                            float, doesn’t seem to make any difference.</div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div class="">The good news is that we’ve at
                            least identified the problem. We are (a)
                            checking the revision of cp2102 chip in the
                            upcoming production batch, and (b) changing
                            QC procedures to set SD CARD bus speed to
                            default (20MHz) and randomly test modules
                            twice on 12V power. Latest production batch
                            is now using v1742+, and that has been
                            tested as working. Going forward, we can
                            resolve this.</div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div class="">As for the first production
                            batch units, they are what they are. For
                            normal SD CARD operation (copying files,
                            flashing firmware, etc), it makes little
                            difference. I guess most users don’t even
                            have an SD CARD inserted. The speed
                            limitation really only becomes an issue if
                            you are trying to log lots of data to SD
                            CARD (such as CAN bus dumps). If the USB is
                            connected, you can 'config set sdcard
                            maxfreq.khz 20000’ and it will work faster.
                            The CP2102 chip can be changed, and I’ll do
                            that for anyone that needs it. I’m asking
                            China to send me some from the latest
                            production batch that we know works.
                            Replacement is relatively straightforward,
                            but involves micro-soldering (the cp2102 is
                            a surface mount chip, very small footprint,
                            with lots of other components near it on the
                            board).</div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div class="">Regards, Mark.</div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <br class="">
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                      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="160">-- 
Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal
Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
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Michael Balzer * Helkenberger Weg 9 * D-58256 Ennepetal
Fon 02333 / 833 5735 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
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