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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 02/04/2016 03:29 PM, Mastro Gippo
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CADjOgT_CUVXj0DHGr8eqROGHuMa0bPV8VDh8b47ZVm_G2--f8g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div> Well, to add my 2c, I've been working on a new version of
the my own "OVMS" I talked about earlier with a LPC1768. I
chose that MCU as it's better supported by the mbed with easy
USB libraries. Mbed is disappointing me too lately, but that
chip is well supported by FreeRTOS too and other toolchains
are available.</div>
<div>I think that a USB/serial/SD bootloader can reduce flash
needs (I have 512k), as multi-car firmware will not be needed
as users can upload a different version easily. I have a
microSD expansion slot for logging and various storage.</div>
<div>I'm still using a GPRS module, because here in eu I see no
signs of that being discontinued anytime soon, and I can't
find a 3G-4G module small enough. The GPS is a Ublox 7.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Actually, 3G might disappear before 2G in EU, simply because too
many vital services depend on it, down to railway track switches...<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CADjOgT_CUVXj0DHGr8eqROGHuMa0bPV8VDh8b47ZVm_G2--f8g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>The board is 4x2cm and can be directly stacked on top of an
OBD connector.</div>
<div>I was also planning on a LoRa/sigfox connection, but
they're not exactly "realtime" (a Sigfox packet can take up to
6 minutes to reach the server).</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
The more I read about it, the more Sigfox is to be excluded, the
100bps throughput gives up to 2 seconds of over-the-air time for the
limited payload of 12bytes, the infrastructure is good though, I
know the team a little bit and they do good stuff (when you end up
living in Toulouse, you have to be part of the hackerspace mouvement
:-) ), but the tech itself has it's limitations, and a 2s transmit
time makes it likely to make it impossible to get a complete message
in a moving vehicule, and without ACK, the message is transmitted 3
times "just in case"... it's a big handful of time occupation where
you'd like realtime telemetry. And, you're allowed 140 messages/day,
with back-off punishments if you go beyond that.<br>
<br>
LoRa suffers less from this, but then it will depend on the
operators density and the economic model they'll push out...<br>
<br>
I'm sure there are SigFox lovers here: don't get me wrong: It's
great technology for static or mostly static, event triggered
sensors, that can be today deployed in vast areas and/or dense
cities, with clean and easy APIs and frontend to set up your
callback URLs...<br>
I can imagine half a billion applications to it, from a moisture
detector in a middle of a football field to smoke detectors in a
forests canopees. I just don't think that specific tech is adapted
to the automotive industry<br>
<br>
<br>
JaXX<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CADjOgT_CUVXj0DHGr8eqROGHuMa0bPV8VDh8b47ZVm_G2--f8g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I think that kinetics are still not user-friendly enough,
and that was my main reason to stick with something
mbed/arduino compatible to allow more developers to make
changes.</div>
<div>Pic: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.mastrogippo.it/ct-1.jpg">http://www.mastrogippo.it/ct-1.jpg</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards</div>
<div>MG</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 2:47 AM, Mark
Webb-Johnson <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mark@webb-johnson.net" target="_blank">mark@webb-johnson.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Arthur, and others,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I’m hitting roadblock after roadblock with these
automotive microcontrollers. The chips are expensive,
but we could live with that. However, the bigger issue
is development environments. It seems that none of the
free and open development environments support these
automotive processor cores (and a development
environment free of encumbrance and easy to get into
is one of the fundamental requirements for this
project). Kind of frustrating, but when looking at
US$30 for a processor, when the Cortex M4 ones are
US$7, makes me rethink things.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am kind of narrowing down on the Kinetics range
from NXP. In particular, MK66FN2M0VLQ18 seems to give
us what we need:</div>
<div>
<ul>
<li>ARM Cortext M4, at 180MHz max</li>
<li>Kinetics free development environment</li>
<li>2MB flash</li>
<li>256KB RAM</li>
<li>2x CAN</li>
<li>6x UART</li>
<li>3x SPI</li>
<li>USB</li>
<li>Ethernet</li>
</ul>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Couple it with a CMSIS-DAP (I’m looking closely at <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/IBDAP-CMSISDAP-JTAGSWD-Debug-Adapter-p-2568.html"
target="_blank">IBDAP</a> as a base for this because
of their free open source approach based on a simple
US$4 LPC11U35FHI33 and gcc-compileable firmware) for
firmware loading, serial over USB console, and
low-cost debugging.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Should work fine with Kinetics Design Studio (KDS).
Windows and Linux support is complete, and OSX is
basic but ok. Includes a RTOS (MQX), but also supports
FreeRTOS.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That gives us two full high-speed CANs directly on
the processor. Extras would be via MCP2515 SPI on an
expansion card.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The above seems like a workable plan. I’ve already
got some FRDM-K64F boards, which are pretty close to
the above and readily available to start the software
development work on. At the moment, I’m trying out the
Kinetics Design Studio, to see how it behaves with
this arrangement and to make sure it will give us what
we need in a simple development environment freely
available. I should know in the next few days whether
that is ok, and then we can start to nail things down.
If anyone else wants to look at KDS and let me know
what you think, that would be appreciated. From my
understand, it is just GCC with an eclipse plugin GUI
built on top.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards, Mark.</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On 4 Feb 2016, at 3:28 AM, Arthur Hebert
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ahebert@gmail.com"
target="_blank">ahebert@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Speaking of modularity, how
about having 1 or 2 CAN buses standard
built-in, and additional CAN buses being
optional add-ons? The additional CANs
could be MCP2515 based via SPI, like <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.mikroe.com/click/can-spi-3.3v/"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mikroe.com/click/can-spi-3.3v/">http://www.mikroe.com/click/can-spi-3.3v/</a></a>.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>With plenty of speed, flash, RAM and
I/O pins, the software can tidily
abstract the SPI comms so that CAN rx/tx
functions appear the same whether
built-in or module-based. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The advantage I see is that it
doesn't constrain the primary MCU
selection so much, and there are plenty
of options available today. Many people
will be happy with 1 or 2 CAN channels,
and those who want 6 CAN channels will
happily pay an extra $100 for the
additional hardware. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Arthur</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 2,
2016 at 11:10 AM, Julien Banchet <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jaxx@jaxx.org"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jaxx@jaxx.org">jaxx@jaxx.org</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>Mark,<br>
<br>
</div>
I'm a bigger fan of standardized
LoRa networks than SigFox but was
going to share the latter's little
faire in London on Feb 16th until
I realized you where in HK and not
UK.<br>
<br>
</div>
Nevertheless, I bet it might get
some curious on the list : <br>
<div><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://makers.sigfox.com/tour/"
target="_blank">http://makers.sigfox.com/tour/</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<div>They have already deployed in
10 major agglomerations (Londres,
Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham,
Glasgow, …) and are still
extending.<span><font
color="#888888"><br>
<br>
</font></span></div>
<span><font color="#888888">
<div>JB./.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</font></span></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 2:35
PM, Mark Webb-Johnson <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mark@webb-johnson.net"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mark@webb-johnson.net">mark@webb-johnson.net</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Well, the new year is
here and OVMS v3 is on
the front burner now.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As you know, I’ve
been waiting for the
MBED system to settle
down and the news is …
it hasn’t. Sure, they’ve
finally released some
open beta code, but only
really 1 board
supported. No more
online compiler.
Complicated tools. RTOS
worse than the old MBED.
And worse is a
proprietary
closed-source server
platform for their
Internet-of-things MBED
O/S. Luckily, the one
board they support is
the NXP FRDM-K64F that I
love. I’ve tried it, and
it sucks. Maybe in a
year’s time…</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I’ve been waiting and
waiting for this. Can’t
say how disappointed I
am with the whole
direction of the MBED
project and closed
development, closed,
source approach.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Anyway, OVMS v2 is
end of life. We can’t
get the SIM908 GSM
modules any more. Even
if we could, 2G really
doesn’t have that much
longer. There are a lot
of M2M devices out
there, but the frequency
space is just too
valuable. Over the next
year or two, more and
more 2G capable cell
towers are going to be
turned off.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So, time to take the
plunge and get on with
it. I’m guessing an open
source development
environment, some free
RTOS, and an adapted
boot loader to allow us
to flash from SC-CARD,
USB, or something like
that.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>From an overall
system architecture
point of view, I think
we know what we want. A
board with a fast micro
controller, lots of ram
and flash, several CAN
buses, and easy
development environment,
easy firmware upload for
the novice, SD card,
USB, ethernet, wifi,
bluetooth, and some
digital I/O. Then,
expansion slots to plug
in 3G/4G connectivity
and whatever else we
want.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We’ve now got lots of
options on the
wifi+bluetooth front.
Within the next couple
of months, the ESP32 is
going to be out, and
that looks really nice.
Same story with 3G/4G
modules. I don’t see
this as an issue.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So let’s discuss the
micro controller.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Let’s say we want at
least 1MB flash, and at
least 256KB RAM. At
least. Now, we need
multiple CAN ports. 2 at
a minimum, but 3 or 4
would be much better. A
lot of the newer cars
split their stuff over
multiple CAN buses, and
having that support
would be great. Remember
that we want one system
that can be used as a
logger, development
environment, and final
production system. That
puts us in ‘automotive’
territory, which is not
a bad place to be.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<ul>
<li>ST have some
brutal micro
controllers, like
the STM32F769. M7
core. Up to 2MB
flash, 512KB SRAM,
and 3x CAN buses.
All the older stuff
is 2 CAN bus max,
but availability of
the new 3xCAN bus
stuff is summer
2016. A couple
supposedly available
now, but I can’t
find them.</li>
<li>NXP have a nice
automotive range in
the MPC micro
controllers (in
particular MPC56 has
lots of choice, and
10 year product life
time), but a strange
e200z0 core that
I’ve never
seen/used. Again,
brutal on the flash
and RAM, and up to 6
CAN buses. These are
their SPC5 32bit
automotive MCUs.
They have a ‘free’
GCC based
development
environment.</li>
<li>The NXP S32K looks
good, but seems not
available yet.</li>
</ul>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My preference is the
NXP range, but I am
concerned about that
e200z0 core. Really
never heard of it.
Anyone got any
experience with this?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The ST stuff also
looks good, but
availability is tight.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thoughts? Anybody
have a good contact with
NXP for some advice?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards, Mark.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
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