<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=iso-8859-1"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Michael,<div><br></div><div>How do you suggest to calibrate? At the moment, what I did was to put a few modules on the bench at 12V, then read the ADC value from the code, then set the scaling factor as the average of those. See inputs.c:</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;"><div><div><font face="Andale Mono">float inputs_voltage(void)</font></div><div><font face="Andale Mono"> {</font></div><div><font face="Andale Mono"> ADCON0=0x00;</font></div><div><font face="Andale Mono"> ADCON0=0; //Select ADC Channel #0</font></div><div><font face="Andale Mono"> ADCON0bits.ADON=1; //switch on the adc module</font></div><div><font face="Andale Mono"> ADCON0bits.GO=1; //Start conversion</font></div><div><font face="Andale Mono"> while(ADCON0bits.GO); //wait for the conversion to finish</font></div><div><font face="Andale Mono"> ADCON0bits.ADON=0; //switch off adc</font></div><div><font face="Andale Mono"><br></font></div><div><font face="Andale Mono"> return (0.0+ADRES)/47.0;</font></div><div><font face="Andale Mono"> }</font></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>The magic number 47.0 is thus really rough, and I suspect not at all good.</div><div><br></div><div>I also don't think this needs to be a float. We only need 1 decimal digit, so storing 10ths of a volt would give us up to 25.5Volts in an unsigned char, which should be fine.</div><div><br></div><div>Sorry, but that code is quite rough. It was implemented as a proof-of-concept, in a rush, when the work on the v2 hardware was finishing and the factory in China needed test code overnight.</div><div><br></div><div>Given that we don't actually know the voltage in the car (without measuring with a voltmeter), and the resistor network we use is going to have some variation between modules, I'm not really sure how we can auto-calibrate this.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards, Mark.</div><div><br><div><div>On 20 Jan, 2013, at 5:25 PM, Michael Balzer <<a href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de">dexter@expeedo.de</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Mark,<br>
<br>
11V is normally recommended as the absolute minimum for lead acid,
below 11V sulfation may occur.<br>
<br>
The discharge curve of the Twizy also shows it begins to drop very
fast from 11V, so if someone misses the alert over night that could
already hurt the battery.<br>
<br>
I can implement a calibration for the 12V reading, but that will
need 1 byte RAM... hm... I noticed the voltage currently is an int,
intentionally?<br>
If that's not needed I could change that, so overall RAM usage will
not change.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Michael<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 20.01.2013 07:22, schrieb Mark
Webb-Johnson:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:F1C76EF4-6AA0-47A8-9716-8DD584830379@webb-johnson.net" type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
Michael,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I checked the Sleep() function. Turning off the SIM908 and
going to Sleep() seemed to bring overall usage down to 25mA.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Your code for alert seems to be ok, but I think the
thresholds may be too high. The ADC reading is dependent on
individual resistor variation (it is just a voltage divider) and
I doubt whether it is accurate to more than 0.5V or so. It will
scale linearly, but the offset will be wrong. For example, my
car shows 11.5V as the nominal voltage.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Perhaps lower the threshold to 11V?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards, Mark.</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On 19 Jan, 2013, at 9:36 PM, Michael Balzer <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de">dexter@expeedo.de</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Mark,<br>
<br>
I just checked in the 12V alert function.<br>
<br>
It's straight forward and compiles ok, but I cannot test
if it triggers and resets correctly under real use
conditions -- I've got no power supply with adjustable
voltage.<br>
<br>
As most 12V batteries will be standard lead acid ones,
I've set the trigger thresholds to reasonable values for
these: The alert will be triggered on voltage drop below
11.5 V and reset on voltage above 11.9 V.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Michael<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 19.01.2013 11:10, schrieb
Michael Balzer:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:50FA710B.8060303@expeedo.de" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
Mark,<br>
<br>
for the Twizy and maybe other cars, a wakeup from
activity on the CAN bus could also be an option. I
remember reading about that in the SIM908 manual. The
OVMS could generally sleep while the Twizy is off, maybe
with an optional timed wakeup every 10-15 minutes for
1-2 minutes to detect GPS position changes.<br>
<br>
Btw, the SIM908 hardware design contains detailed info
on the sleep modes and power usages:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mt-system.ru/sites/default/files/sim908-c_hardware_design_v1.03.pdf">http://www.mt-system.ru/sites/default/files/sim908-c_hardware_design_v1.03.pdf</a><br>
<br>
Thanks for bringing the 12V monitoring to my attention.<br>
<br>
I'll now first add an SMS alert on the 12V power line
getting too low, that's easy to implement and will
remind users to charge.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Michael<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 19.01.2013 10:47,
schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:946F2EB5-33B6-46BE-BF8B-B9E8ED9B8419@webb-johnson.net" type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<div><br>
</div>
Here are the power usage figures from my bench, using
v1 hardware:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<ul class="MailOutline">
<li>PIC (normal mode) on, modem powered down (by
power toggle switch): 35mA - 42mA</li>
<li>PIC (normal mode) on, modem on, gps off: 75mA</li>
<li>PIC (normal mode) on, modem on,gps on: 120mA</li>
<li>Very short-lived bursts to 160mA at times,
presumably while transmitting on GSM</li>
</ul>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Playing with AT+CSCLK=2, the modem seems to drop
to almost no power usage (perhaps 45mA), with a CR
on the async port waking it up.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Looking at the PIC18F2685 data sheet, it seems
that with an external 20MHz oscillator, the normal
power consumption is around 30mA to 40mA. Switching
to an internal 4MHz oscillator reduces that to
5.3mA, and internal 1MHz oscillator to 3mA. Sleep
mode is 2ľA.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'll play around with it. So far, it seems it is
quite easy to go into low-power sleep mode. It is
getting back out that is the tricky bit.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards, Mark.</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On 19 Jan, 2013, at 8:50 AM, Mark
Webb-Johnson <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:mark@webb-johnson.net">mark@webb-johnson.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break:
after-white-space; ">Michael,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Urgh. Glad that you managed to recover
it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The TMC forums have a few theads at the
moment of Model S cars with 12V battery
issues, and the Tesla Roadster's little 12V
battery seems to need replacing every 13 to
25 months.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For Roadsters, OVMS is not run off that
little 12V battery, so we haven't seen this
issue.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The good news is that we did anticipate
this sort of thing (except were expecting to
see it more on ICE cars with OBDII
monitoring). We added 12V power line
monitoring, through an ADC, into the v2
hardware. Looking at your logs for the past
few days is interesting (I don't think there
is anything private in their apart from the
vehicleid and odometer, which I have
obscured, so hope you don't mind me posting
here). The 12v line reading is the second to
last column:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px;
border: none; padding: 0px;"><font face="Andale Mono" size="2">2013-01-14
06:39:53.930886 -0500 info main: #34 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
128,0,0,13,17,4,0,YYYY9,28,0,-127,0,120,-1,15.0,0<br>
2013-01-14 06:59:54.871517 -0500 info
main: #34 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.7,0<br>
2013-01-14 07:05:26.666203 -0500 info
main: #34 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.7,0<br>
2013-01-14 07:05:46.498420 -0500 info
main: #34 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.7,0<br>
2013-01-14 07:06:04.864927 -0500 info
main: #34 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.7,0<br>
2013-01-14 07:30:07.228738 -0500 info
main: #34 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.6,0<br>
2013-01-14 08:29:57.461316 -0500 info
main: #34 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.5,0<br>
2013-01-14 09:29:48.441380 -0500 info
main: #34 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.4,0<br>
2013-01-14 11:29:30.755176 -0500 info
main: #34 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.3,0<br>
2013-01-14 15:05:36.688666 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.2,0<br>
2013-01-14 16:05:35.111552 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.7,0<br>
2013-01-14 16:36:35.755630 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.2,0<br>
2013-01-14 18:38:18.404933 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.2,0<br>
2013-01-14 21:04:47.187479 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.1,0<br>
2013-01-15 02:04:22.801440 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.0,0<br>
2013-01-15 09:03:13.233483 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.9,0<br>
2013-01-15 11:02:54.400624 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.7,0<br>
2013-01-15 12:02:44.724576 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.9,0<br>
2013-01-15 13:02:34.285593 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.8,0<br>
2013-01-15 16:02:09.372087 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.7,0<br>
2013-01-15 17:02:00.235001 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.8,0<br>
2013-01-15 19:01:41.695938 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.7,0<br>
2013-01-16 02:00:40.126355 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.6,0<br>
2013-01-16 06:00:03.073862 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.5,0<br>
2013-01-16 11:59:01.907094 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.4,0<br>
2013-01-16 15:58:22.520731 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 17:22:48.691426 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 17:30:10.701329 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 17:30:21.837740 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.2,0<br>
2013-01-16 17:36:37.811552 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 17:46:01.164994 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 17:48:35.257576 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 17:56:49.565932 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 18:01:15.186127 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 18:02:46.866156 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 18:02:54.217581 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 18:10:29.930408 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 18:10:38.723483 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.2,0<br>
2013-01-16 18:11:12.459758 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.2,0<br>
2013-01-16 18:18:31.863177 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 18:19:03.123286 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 18:43:55.355803 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 18:58:43.567326 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.2,0<br>
2013-01-16 22:58:15.314101 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.1,0<br>
2013-01-17 01:57:50.181011 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.0,0<br>
2013-01-17 02:57:40.587918 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,10.9,0<br>
2013-01-17 03:57:30.418056 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,10.8,0<br>
2013-01-17 04:57:19.241415 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,10.6,0<br>
2013-01-17 05:57:10.622186 -0500 info
main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,10.3,0<br>
2013-01-17 06:32:32.593533 -0500 info
main: #55 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,10.0,0<br>
2013-01-17 07:32:23.932656 -0500 info
main: #55 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,9.4,0<br>
2013-01-17 08:32:13.374380 -0500 info
main: #55 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,7.9,0<br>
2013-01-17 09:32:03.204557 -0500 info
main: #55 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,7.2,0<br>
2013-01-17 10:31:52.551362 -0500 info
main: #55 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,6.5,0<br>
2013-01-17 11:31:41.821330 -0500 info
main: #55 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,6.7,0<br>
2013-01-17 12:58:48.540906 -0500 info
main: #60 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
128,0,0,13,1,2,0,ZZZZ8,0,0,-127,0,120,-1,15.1,0</font></blockquote>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It shows 15v at the start (I guess when
the car is on and charging it), then 12.7v
at 2013-01-14 06am EST, then falls gradually
to 11.0v at 2013-01-17 01am EST. At that
point it seems to fall faster, down to the
last report (just 10 hours later) 6.7v at
2013-01-17 11am EST.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My original thought to handle this was to
have two thresholds.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At the first threshold, the PIC would
turn off the modem and re-awake only once
every 12 hours, for 2 minutes, before going
back to sleep.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At the second threshold, the PIC would
turn off the modem, and go to a deep sleep
itself. In this mode, once power was
restored it would reset itself.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Exit from either mode would be the 12v
power line going back above the first
threshold plus some safety margin.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This weekend, I'll get some exact power
measurements from the v2 hardware module, so
we know what we are dealing with:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<ul class="MailOutline">
<li>Just the PIC (modem powered down)</li>
<li>PIC + MODEM</li>
<li>PIC + MODEM + GPS</li>
</ul>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Last time I tested this, on v1 hardware
without GPS, these were the figures for PIC
+ MODEM:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<ul class="MailOutline">
<li>Idle: 40mA @12V</li>
<li>Cellular Network Registration: 100mA
@12V</li>
<li>Network activity: 80mA @12V</li>
</ul>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards, Mark.</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On 18 Jan, 2013, at 10:47 PM, Michael
Balzer <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de">dexter@expeedo.de</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">Mark, List,<br>
<br>
yesterday my Twizy was temporarily
dead... because of the OVMS power usage.<br>
<br>
I had not driven for 5 days. The Twizy
has a very small 12V battery with only
14 Ah capacity, and it only gets charged
while charging the Twizy and while
driving (from the main battery).<br>
<br>
The OVMS with GPS activated needs a
constant current of ~110 mA according to
my measurement, thus sucking that
battery empty within 4-5 days, maybe
fewer. I'll make the power warning much
more prominent in the Twizy user guide.<br>
<br>
Have there been any considerations yet
about using the sleep mode of the PIC
and/or SIM chipset?<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Michael<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Michael Balzer * Paradestr. 8 * D-42107
Wuppertal<br>
Fon 0202 / 272 2201 * Handy 0176 / 206
989 26<br>
<br>
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