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    Mark,<br>
    <br>
    11V is normally recommended as the absolute minimum for lead acid,
    below 11V sulfation may occur.<br>
    <br>
    The discharge curve of the Twizy also shows it begins to drop very
    fast from 11V, so if someone misses the alert over night that could
    already hurt the battery.<br>
    <br>
    I can implement a calibration for the 12V reading, but that will
    need 1 byte RAM... hm... I noticed the voltage currently is an int,
    intentionally?<br>
    If that's not needed I could change that, so overall RAM usage will
    not change.<br>
    <br>
    Regards,<br>
    Michael<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 20.01.2013 07:22, schrieb Mark
      Webb-Johnson:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:F1C76EF4-6AA0-47A8-9716-8DD584830379@webb-johnson.net"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=ISO-8859-1">
      Michael,
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>I checked the Sleep() function. Turning off the SIM908 and
        going to Sleep() seemed to bring overall usage down to 25mA.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Your code for alert seems to be ok, but I think the
        thresholds may be too high. The ADC reading is dependent on
        individual resistor variation (it is just a voltage divider) and
        I doubt whether it is accurate to more than 0.5V or so. It will
        scale linearly, but the offset will be wrong. For example, my
        car shows 11.5V as the nominal voltage.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Perhaps lower the threshold to 11V?</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Regards, Mark.</div>
      <div><br>
        <div>
          <div>On 19 Jan, 2013, at 9:36 PM, Michael Balzer <<a
              moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de">dexter@expeedo.de</a>>
            wrote:</div>
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            <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Mark,<br>
              <br>
              I just checked in the 12V alert function.<br>
              <br>
              It's straight forward and compiles ok, but I cannot test
              if it triggers and resets correctly under real use
              conditions -- I've got no power supply with adjustable
              voltage.<br>
              <br>
              As most 12V batteries will be standard lead acid ones,
              I've set the trigger thresholds to reasonable values for
              these: The alert will be triggered on voltage drop below
              11.5 V and reset on voltage above 11.9 V.<br>
              <br>
              Regards,<br>
              Michael<br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 19.01.2013 11:10, schrieb
                Michael Balzer:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote cite="mid:50FA710B.8060303@expeedo.de"
                type="cite">
                <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
                  http-equiv="Content-Type">
                Mark,<br>
                <br>
                for the Twizy and maybe other cars, a wakeup from
                activity on the CAN bus could also be an option. I
                remember reading about that in the SIM908 manual. The
                OVMS could generally sleep while the Twizy is off, maybe
                with an optional timed wakeup every 10-15 minutes for
                1-2 minutes to detect GPS position changes.<br>
                <br>
                Btw, the SIM908 hardware design contains detailed info
                on the sleep modes and power usages:<br>
                <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.mt-system.ru/sites/default/files/sim908-c_hardware_design_v1.03.pdf">http://www.mt-system.ru/sites/default/files/sim908-c_hardware_design_v1.03.pdf</a><br>
                <br>
                Thanks for bringing the 12V monitoring to my attention.<br>
                <br>
                I'll now first add an SMS alert on the 12V power line
                getting too low, that's easy to implement and will
                remind users to charge.<br>
                <br>
                Regards,<br>
                Michael<br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 19.01.2013 10:47,
                  schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote
                  cite="mid:946F2EB5-33B6-46BE-BF8B-B9E8ED9B8419@webb-johnson.net"
                  type="cite">
                  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
                    charset=ISO-8859-1">
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  Here are the power usage figures from my bench, using
                  v1 hardware:
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <ul class="MailOutline">
                      <li>PIC (normal mode) on, modem powered down (by
                        power toggle switch): 35mA - 42mA</li>
                      <li>PIC (normal mode) on, modem on, gps off: 75mA</li>
                      <li>PIC (normal mode) on, modem on,gps on: 120mA</li>
                      <li>Very short-lived bursts to 160mA at times,
                        presumably while transmitting on GSM</li>
                    </ul>
                  </div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Playing with AT+CSCLK=2, the modem seems to drop
                    to almost no power usage (perhaps 45mA), with a CR
                    on the async port waking it up.</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Looking at the PIC18F2685 data sheet, it seems
                    that with an external 20MHz oscillator, the normal
                    power consumption is around 30mA to 40mA. Switching
                    to an internal 4MHz oscillator reduces that to
                    5.3mA, and internal 1MHz oscillator to 3mA. Sleep
                    mode is 2µA.</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>I'll play around with it. So far, it seems it is
                    quite easy to go into low-power sleep mode. It is
                    getting back out that is the tricky bit.</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Regards, Mark.</div>
                  <div><br>
                    <div>
                      <div>On 19 Jan, 2013, at 8:50 AM, Mark
                        Webb-Johnson <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:mark@webb-johnson.net">mark@webb-johnson.net</a>>


                        wrote:</div>
                      <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                      <blockquote type="cite">
                        <meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
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                        <div style="word-wrap: break-word;
                          -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break:
                          after-white-space; ">Michael,
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>Urgh. Glad that you managed to recover
                            it.</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>The TMC forums have a few theads at the
                            moment of Model S cars with 12V battery
                            issues, and the Tesla Roadster's little 12V
                            battery seems to need replacing every 13 to
                            25 months.</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>For Roadsters, OVMS is not run off that
                            little 12V battery, so we haven't seen this
                            issue.</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>The good news is that we did anticipate
                            this sort of thing (except were expecting to
                            see it more on ICE cars with OBDII
                            monitoring). We added 12V power line
                            monitoring, through an ADC, into the v2
                            hardware. Looking at your logs for the past
                            few days is interesting (I don't think there
                            is anything private in their apart from the
                            vehicleid and odometer, which I have
                            obscured, so hope you don't mind me posting
                            here). The 12v line reading is the second to
                            last column:</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px;
                              border: none; padding: 0px;"><font
                                face="Andale Mono" size="2">2013-01-14
                                06:39:53.930886 -0500 info  main: #34 C
                                XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                128,0,0,13,17,4,0,YYYY9,28,0,-127,0,120,-1,15.0,0<br>
                                2013-01-14 06:59:54.871517 -0500 info
                                 main: #34 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.7,0<br>
                                2013-01-14 07:05:26.666203 -0500 info
                                 main: #34 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.7,0<br>
                                2013-01-14 07:05:46.498420 -0500 info
                                 main: #34 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.7,0<br>
                                2013-01-14 07:06:04.864927 -0500 info
                                 main: #34 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.7,0<br>
                                2013-01-14 07:30:07.228738 -0500 info
                                 main: #34 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.6,0<br>
                                2013-01-14 08:29:57.461316 -0500 info
                                 main: #34 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.5,0<br>
                                2013-01-14 09:29:48.441380 -0500 info
                                 main: #34 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.4,0<br>
                                2013-01-14 11:29:30.755176 -0500 info
                                 main: #34 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.3,0<br>
                                2013-01-14 15:05:36.688666 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.2,0<br>
                                2013-01-14 16:05:35.111552 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.7,0<br>
                                2013-01-14 16:36:35.755630 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.2,0<br>
                                2013-01-14 18:38:18.404933 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.2,0<br>
                                2013-01-14 21:04:47.187479 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.1,0<br>
                                2013-01-15 02:04:22.801440 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.0,0<br>
                                2013-01-15 09:03:13.233483 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.9,0<br>
                                2013-01-15 11:02:54.400624 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.7,0<br>
                                2013-01-15 12:02:44.724576 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.9,0<br>
                                2013-01-15 13:02:34.285593 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.8,0<br>
                                2013-01-15 16:02:09.372087 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.7,0<br>
                                2013-01-15 17:02:00.235001 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.8,0<br>
                                2013-01-15 19:01:41.695938 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.7,0<br>
                                2013-01-16 02:00:40.126355 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.6,0<br>
                                2013-01-16 06:00:03.073862 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.5,0<br>
                                2013-01-16 11:59:01.907094 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.4,0<br>
                                2013-01-16 15:58:22.520731 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
                                2013-01-16 17:22:48.691426 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
                                2013-01-16 17:30:10.701329 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
                                2013-01-16 17:30:21.837740 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.2,0<br>
                                2013-01-16 17:36:37.811552 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
                                2013-01-16 17:46:01.164994 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
                                2013-01-16 17:48:35.257576 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
                                2013-01-16 17:56:49.565932 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
                                2013-01-16 18:01:15.186127 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
                                2013-01-16 18:02:46.866156 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
                                2013-01-16 18:02:54.217581 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
                                2013-01-16 18:10:29.930408 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
                                2013-01-16 18:10:38.723483 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.2,0<br>
                                2013-01-16 18:11:12.459758 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.2,0<br>
                                2013-01-16 18:18:31.863177 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
                                2013-01-16 18:19:03.123286 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
                                2013-01-16 18:43:55.355803 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
                                2013-01-16 18:58:43.567326 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.2,0<br>
                                2013-01-16 22:58:15.314101 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.1,0<br>
                                2013-01-17 01:57:50.181011 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.0,0<br>
                                2013-01-17 02:57:40.587918 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,10.9,0<br>
                                2013-01-17 03:57:30.418056 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,10.8,0<br>
                                2013-01-17 04:57:19.241415 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,10.6,0<br>
                                2013-01-17 05:57:10.622186 -0500 info
                                 main: #54 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,10.3,0<br>
                                2013-01-17 06:32:32.593533 -0500 info
                                 main: #55 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,10.0,0<br>
                                2013-01-17 07:32:23.932656 -0500 info
                                 main: #55 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,9.4,0<br>
                                2013-01-17 08:32:13.374380 -0500 info
                                 main: #55 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,7.9,0<br>
                                2013-01-17 09:32:03.204557 -0500 info
                                 main: #55 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,7.2,0<br>
                                2013-01-17 10:31:52.551362 -0500 info
                                 main: #55 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,6.5,0<br>
                                2013-01-17 11:31:41.821330 -0500 info
                                 main: #55 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,6.7,0<br>
                                2013-01-17 12:58:48.540906 -0500 info
                                 main: #60 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
                                128,0,0,13,1,2,0,ZZZZ8,0,0,-127,0,120,-1,15.1,0</font></blockquote>
                          </div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>It shows 15v at the start (I guess when
                            the car is on and charging it), then 12.7v
                            at 2013-01-14 06am EST, then falls gradually
                            to 11.0v at 2013-01-17 01am EST. At that
                            point it seems to fall faster, down to the
                            last report (just 10 hours later)  6.7v at
                            2013-01-17 11am EST.</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>My original thought to handle this was to
                            have two thresholds.</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>At the first threshold, the PIC would
                            turn off the modem and re-awake only once
                            every 12 hours, for 2 minutes, before going
                            back to sleep.</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>At the second threshold, the PIC would
                            turn off the modem, and go to a deep sleep
                            itself. In this mode, once power was
                            restored it would reset itself.</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>Exit from either mode would be the 12v
                            power line going back above the first
                            threshold plus some safety margin.</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>This weekend, I'll get some exact power
                            measurements from the v2 hardware module, so
                            we know what we are dealing with:</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <ul class="MailOutline">
                              <li>Just the PIC (modem powered down)</li>
                              <li>PIC + MODEM</li>
                              <li>PIC + MODEM + GPS</li>
                            </ul>
                          </div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>Last time I tested this, on v1 hardware
                            without GPS, these were the figures for PIC
                            + MODEM:</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <ul class="MailOutline">
                              <li>Idle: 40mA @12V</li>
                              <li>Cellular Network Registration: 100mA
                                @12V</li>
                              <li>Network activity: 80mA @12V</li>
                            </ul>
                          </div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>Regards, Mark.</div>
                          <div><br>
                            <div>
                              <div>On 18 Jan, 2013, at 10:47 PM, Michael
                                Balzer <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de">dexter@expeedo.de</a>>


                                wrote:</div>
                              <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                              <blockquote type="cite">Mark, List,<br>
                                <br>
                                yesterday my Twizy was temporarily
                                dead... because of the OVMS power usage.<br>
                                <br>
                                I had not driven for 5 days. The Twizy
                                has a very small 12V battery with only
                                14 Ah capacity, and it only gets charged
                                while charging the Twizy and while
                                driving (from the main battery).<br>
                                <br>
                                The OVMS with GPS activated needs a
                                constant current of ~110 mA according to
                                my measurement, thus sucking that
                                battery empty within 4-5 days, maybe
                                fewer. I'll make the power warning much
                                more prominent in the Twizy user guide.<br>
                                <br>
                                Have there been any considerations yet
                                about using the sleep mode of the PIC
                                and/or SIM chipset?<br>
                                <br>
                                Regards,<br>
                                Michael<br>
                                <br>
                                -- <br>
                                Michael Balzer * Paradestr. 8 * D-42107
                                Wuppertal<br>
                                Fon 0202 / 272 2201 * Handy 0176 / 206
                                989 26<br>
                                <br>
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Michael Balzer * Paradestr. 8 * D-42107 Wuppertal
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