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Mark,<br>
<br>
I've not been into the details yet. My first idea was taking the
voltage readout at the first defined state encountered (e.g.
charging / car switched on), or alternatively by collecting the
maximum voltage.<br>
<br>
The max would for example be 15.1 for my Twizy and 13.1 for your
roadster. Not sure yet if that's sufficient, maybe building a mean
value over some time would be an option too.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Michael<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 20.01.2013 10:36, schrieb Mark
Webb-Johnson:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:56F0CF2A-4801-4B8E-B496-9D22EF9705B7@webb-johnson.net"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
Michael,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>How do you suggest to calibrate? At the moment, what I did
was to put a few modules on the bench at 12V, then read the ADC
value from the code, then set the scaling factor as the average
of those. See inputs.c:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding:
0px;">
<div>
<div><font face="Andale Mono">float inputs_voltage(void)</font></div>
<div><font face="Andale Mono"> {</font></div>
<div><font face="Andale Mono"> ADCON0=0x00;</font></div>
<div><font face="Andale Mono"> ADCON0=0; //Select ADC
Channel #0</font></div>
<div><font face="Andale Mono"> ADCON0bits.ADON=1; //switch
on the adc module</font></div>
<div><font face="Andale Mono"> ADCON0bits.GO=1; //Start
conversion</font></div>
<div><font face="Andale Mono"> while(ADCON0bits.GO); //wait
for the conversion to finish</font></div>
<div><font face="Andale Mono"> ADCON0bits.ADON=0; //switch
off adc</font></div>
<div><font face="Andale Mono"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="Andale Mono"> return (0.0+ADRES)/47.0;</font></div>
<div><font face="Andale Mono"> }</font></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The magic number 47.0 is thus really rough, and I suspect not
at all good.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I also don't think this needs to be a float. We only need 1
decimal digit, so storing 10ths of a volt would give us up to
25.5Volts in an unsigned char, which should be fine.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sorry, but that code is quite rough. It was implemented as a
proof-of-concept, in a rush, when the work on the v2 hardware
was finishing and the factory in China needed test code
overnight.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Given that we don't actually know the voltage in the car
(without measuring with a voltmeter), and the resistor network
we use is going to have some variation between modules, I'm not
really sure how we can auto-calibrate this.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards, Mark.</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On 20 Jan, 2013, at 5:25 PM, Michael Balzer <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de">dexter@expeedo.de</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Mark,<br>
<br>
11V is normally recommended as the absolute minimum for
lead acid, below 11V sulfation may occur.<br>
<br>
The discharge curve of the Twizy also shows it begins to
drop very fast from 11V, so if someone misses the alert
over night that could already hurt the battery.<br>
<br>
I can implement a calibration for the 12V reading, but
that will need 1 byte RAM... hm... I noticed the voltage
currently is an int, intentionally?<br>
If that's not needed I could change that, so overall RAM
usage will not change.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Michael<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 20.01.2013 07:22, schrieb
Mark Webb-Johnson:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:F1C76EF4-6AA0-47A8-9716-8DD584830379@webb-johnson.net"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
Michael,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I checked the Sleep() function. Turning off the
SIM908 and going to Sleep() seemed to bring overall
usage down to 25mA.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Your code for alert seems to be ok, but I think the
thresholds may be too high. The ADC reading is
dependent on individual resistor variation (it is just
a voltage divider) and I doubt whether it is accurate
to more than 0.5V or so. It will scale linearly, but
the offset will be wrong. For example, my car shows
11.5V as the nominal voltage.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Perhaps lower the threshold to 11V?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards, Mark.</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On 19 Jan, 2013, at 9:36 PM, Michael Balzer
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de">dexter@expeedo.de</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Mark,<br>
<br>
I just checked in the 12V alert function.<br>
<br>
It's straight forward and compiles ok, but I
cannot test if it triggers and resets correctly
under real use conditions -- I've got no power
supply with adjustable voltage.<br>
<br>
As most 12V batteries will be standard lead acid
ones, I've set the trigger thresholds to
reasonable values for these: The alert will be
triggered on voltage drop below 11.5 V and reset
on voltage above 11.9 V.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Michael<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 19.01.2013
11:10, schrieb Michael Balzer:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:50FA710B.8060303@expeedo.de"
type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
Mark,<br>
<br>
for the Twizy and maybe other cars, a wakeup
from activity on the CAN bus could also be an
option. I remember reading about that in the
SIM908 manual. The OVMS could generally sleep
while the Twizy is off, maybe with an optional
timed wakeup every 10-15 minutes for 1-2
minutes to detect GPS position changes.<br>
<br>
Btw, the SIM908 hardware design contains
detailed info on the sleep modes and power
usages:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.mt-system.ru/sites/default/files/sim908-c_hardware_design_v1.03.pdf">http://www.mt-system.ru/sites/default/files/sim908-c_hardware_design_v1.03.pdf</a><br>
<br>
Thanks for bringing the 12V monitoring to my
attention.<br>
<br>
I'll now first add an SMS alert on the 12V
power line getting too low, that's easy to
implement and will remind users to charge.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Michael<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 19.01.2013
10:47, schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:946F2EB5-33B6-46BE-BF8B-B9E8ED9B8419@webb-johnson.net"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1">
<div><br>
</div>
Here are the power usage figures from my
bench, using v1 hardware:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<ul class="MailOutline">
<li>PIC (normal mode) on, modem powered
down (by power toggle switch): 35mA -
42mA</li>
<li>PIC (normal mode) on, modem on, gps
off: 75mA</li>
<li>PIC (normal mode) on, modem on,gps
on: 120mA</li>
<li>Very short-lived bursts to 160mA at
times, presumably while transmitting
on GSM</li>
</ul>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Playing with AT+CSCLK=2, the modem
seems to drop to almost no power usage
(perhaps 45mA), with a CR on the async
port waking it up.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Looking at the PIC18F2685 data sheet,
it seems that with an external 20MHz
oscillator, the normal power consumption
is around 30mA to 40mA. Switching to an
internal 4MHz oscillator reduces that to
5.3mA, and internal 1MHz oscillator to
3mA. Sleep mode is 2µA.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'll play around with it. So far, it
seems it is quite easy to go into
low-power sleep mode. It is getting back
out that is the tricky bit.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards, Mark.</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On 19 Jan, 2013, at 8:50 AM, Mark
Webb-Johnson <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mark@webb-johnson.net">mark@webb-johnson.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break:
after-white-space; ">Michael,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Urgh. Glad that you managed to
recover it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The TMC forums have a few
theads at the moment of Model S
cars with 12V battery issues, and
the Tesla Roadster's little 12V
battery seems to need replacing
every 13 to 25 months.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For Roadsters, OVMS is not run
off that little 12V battery, so we
haven't seen this issue.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The good news is that we did
anticipate this sort of thing
(except were expecting to see it
more on ICE cars with OBDII
monitoring). We added 12V power
line monitoring, through an ADC,
into the v2 hardware. Looking at
your logs for the past few days is
interesting (I don't think there
is anything private in their apart
from the vehicleid and odometer,
which I have obscured, so hope you
don't mind me posting here). The
12v line reading is the second to
last column:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0
40px; border: none; padding:
0px;"><font face="Andale Mono"
size="2">2013-01-14
06:39:53.930886 -0500 info
main: #34 C XXXXXXX rx msg D
128,0,0,13,17,4,0,YYYY9,28,0,-127,0,120,-1,15.0,0<br>
2013-01-14 06:59:54.871517
-0500 info main: #34 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.7,0<br>
2013-01-14 07:05:26.666203
-0500 info main: #34 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.7,0<br>
2013-01-14 07:05:46.498420
-0500 info main: #34 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.7,0<br>
2013-01-14 07:06:04.864927
-0500 info main: #34 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.7,0<br>
2013-01-14 07:30:07.228738
-0500 info main: #34 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.6,0<br>
2013-01-14 08:29:57.461316
-0500 info main: #34 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.5,0<br>
2013-01-14 09:29:48.441380
-0500 info main: #34 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.4,0<br>
2013-01-14 11:29:30.755176
-0500 info main: #34 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.3,0<br>
2013-01-14 15:05:36.688666
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.2,0<br>
2013-01-14 16:05:35.111552
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.7,0<br>
2013-01-14 16:36:35.755630
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.2,0<br>
2013-01-14 18:38:18.404933
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.2,0<br>
2013-01-14 21:04:47.187479
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.1,0<br>
2013-01-15 02:04:22.801440
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,12.0,0<br>
2013-01-15 09:03:13.233483
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.9,0<br>
2013-01-15 11:02:54.400624
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.7,0<br>
2013-01-15 12:02:44.724576
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.9,0<br>
2013-01-15 13:02:34.285593
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.8,0<br>
2013-01-15 16:02:09.372087
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.7,0<br>
2013-01-15 17:02:00.235001
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.8,0<br>
2013-01-15 19:01:41.695938
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.7,0<br>
2013-01-16 02:00:40.126355
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.6,0<br>
2013-01-16 06:00:03.073862
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.5,0<br>
2013-01-16 11:59:01.907094
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.4,0<br>
2013-01-16 15:58:22.520731
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 17:22:48.691426
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 17:30:10.701329
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 17:30:21.837740
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.2,0<br>
2013-01-16 17:36:37.811552
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 17:46:01.164994
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 17:48:35.257576
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 17:56:49.565932
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 18:01:15.186127
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 18:02:46.866156
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 18:02:54.217581
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 18:10:29.930408
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 18:10:38.723483
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.2,0<br>
2013-01-16 18:11:12.459758
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.2,0<br>
2013-01-16 18:18:31.863177
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 18:19:03.123286
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 18:43:55.355803
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.3,0<br>
2013-01-16 18:58:43.567326
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.2,0<br>
2013-01-16 22:58:15.314101
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.1,0<br>
2013-01-17 01:57:50.181011
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,11.0,0<br>
2013-01-17 02:57:40.587918
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,10.9,0<br>
2013-01-17 03:57:30.418056
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,10.8,0<br>
2013-01-17 04:57:19.241415
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,10.6,0<br>
2013-01-17 05:57:10.622186
-0500 info main: #54 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,10.3,0<br>
2013-01-17 06:32:32.593533
-0500 info main: #55 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,10.0,0<br>
2013-01-17 07:32:23.932656
-0500 info main: #55 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,9.4,0<br>
2013-01-17 08:32:13.374380
-0500 info main: #55 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,7.9,0<br>
2013-01-17 09:32:03.204557
-0500 info main: #55 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,7.2,0<br>
2013-01-17 10:31:52.551362
-0500 info main: #55 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,6.5,0<br>
2013-01-17 11:31:41.821330
-0500 info main: #55 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
0,0,0,14,15,4,0,ZZZZ0,0,0,-127,0,0,-1,6.7,0<br>
2013-01-17 12:58:48.540906
-0500 info main: #60 C
XXXXXXX rx msg D
128,0,0,13,1,2,0,ZZZZ8,0,0,-127,0,120,-1,15.1,0</font></blockquote>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It shows 15v at the start (I
guess when the car is on and
charging it), then 12.7v
at 2013-01-14 06am EST, then falls
gradually to 11.0v at 2013-01-17
01am EST. At that point it seems
to fall faster, down to the last
report (just 10 hours later) 6.7v
at 2013-01-17 11am EST.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My original thought to handle
this was to have two thresholds.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At the first threshold, the PIC
would turn off the modem and
re-awake only once every 12 hours,
for 2 minutes, before going back
to sleep.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At the second threshold, the
PIC would turn off the modem, and
go to a deep sleep itself. In this
mode, once power was restored it
would reset itself.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Exit from either mode would be
the 12v power line going back
above the first threshold plus
some safety margin.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This weekend, I'll get some
exact power measurements from the
v2 hardware module, so we know
what we are dealing with:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<ul class="MailOutline">
<li>Just the PIC (modem powered
down)</li>
<li>PIC + MODEM</li>
<li>PIC + MODEM + GPS</li>
</ul>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Last time I tested this, on v1
hardware without GPS, these were
the figures for PIC + MODEM:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<ul class="MailOutline">
<li>Idle: 40mA @12V</li>
<li>Cellular Network
Registration: 100mA @12V</li>
<li>Network activity: 80mA @12V</li>
</ul>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards, Mark.</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On 18 Jan, 2013, at 10:47
PM, Michael Balzer <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dexter@expeedo.de">dexter@expeedo.de</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br
class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">Mark,
List,<br>
<br>
yesterday my Twizy was
temporarily dead... because of
the OVMS power usage.<br>
<br>
I had not driven for 5 days.
The Twizy has a very small 12V
battery with only 14 Ah
capacity, and it only gets
charged while charging the
Twizy and while driving (from
the main battery).<br>
<br>
The OVMS with GPS activated
needs a constant current of
~110 mA according to my
measurement, thus sucking that
battery empty within 4-5 days,
maybe fewer. I'll make the
power warning much more
prominent in the Twizy user
guide.<br>
<br>
Have there been any
considerations yet about using
the sleep mode of the PIC
and/or SIM chipset?<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Michael<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Michael Balzer * Paradestr. 8
* D-42107 Wuppertal<br>
Fon 0202 / 272 2201 * Handy
0176 / 206 989 26<br>
<br>
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