[Ovmsdev] OVMS ODBII Cable
Mark Webb-Johnson
mark at webb-johnson.net
Mon Dec 10 08:45:36 HKT 2012
Michael,
We used to use cat5 twisted pair for the Tesla Roadster cables, but the ones generally available are solid core and we had a lot of problems with them being brittle (particularly at the point they went into the pins on the car-side connector). So, we switched to thicker cable with braided cores, and that worked out to be much more durable.
The factory I accepted the bid from specializes in automotive connectors and cables - I hope they know what they are doing. Not sure if it is twisted pair, but I doubt it. Given the 1m length, and that we're not routing it in a big wiring bundle or near large sources of interference (the motor and inverter, in particular), I think we should be ok.
They should complete the cables this week, so we'll know soon enough :-)
Regards, Mark.
On 9 Dec, 2012, at 7:27 PM, Michael Balzer wrote:
> Mark,
>
> I just read about the CAN bus using twisted pair cables like ethernet for shielding.
>
> I don't know if the manufacturer will use twisted cables. I think 1m length untwisted should be no problem, but maybe that should be specified for the next batch, just to be on the safe side.
>
> Regards,
> Michael
>
>
> Am 05.12.2012 01:14, schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:
>> Michael(s),
>>
>> We've just ordered 100 of these (gulp).
>>
>> Should be done in about a week.
>>
>> Regards, Mark.
>>
>> On 5 Dec, 2012, at 6:49 AM, Michael Jochum wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Looks Good.
>>> Right angle is ok.
>>> Length is ok too.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bye
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> Von unterwegs gesendet
>>>
>>> Am 04.12.2012 um 06:06 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson <mark at webb-johnson.net>:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've found a manufacturer for the cable, that seems quite good and professional. I haven't used them before, but they come recommended. I also tendered for this, and they were not the cheapest response, but in the lowest 10%. Quality seems very good, and they specialise in manufacturing automotive cables so should know what they are doing.
>>>>
>>>> Based on our specification:
>>>>
>>>> J1962-M DB9-F Signal
>>>> 4 3 Chassis/Power GND
>>>> 6 7 CAN-H
>>>> 14 2 CAN-L
>>>> 16 9 +12V Vehicle Power
>>>>
>>>> J1962 end should be MALE plug with right angle cable. DB9 end should be FEMALE.
>>>> Both ends should be enclosed in shells, and cable should be 1metre in length.
>>>>
>>>> The resulting build spec sheet is shown below.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry it is mostly in Chinese, but the most important points are (a) the pinouts, (b) the 1m length, (c) the use of a right-angled ODBII connector, (d) the connectors types, (e) the pinouts, and (f) did I mention the pinouts?
>>>>
>>>> Could you guys check this out, and confirm it looks ok from your point of view? Something standard that the Twizy, Volt/Ampera and other users could get behind?
>>>>
>>>> We are going to have to pay upfront for at least 100 of these, so need to be certain it is correct. Pricing is going to be around US$9 - US$10 per cable (including worldwide shipping), which I think is pretty good.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, Mark.
>>>>
>>>> <PastedGraphic-4.png>
>>>>
>>>> On 12 Nov, 2012, at 7:09 PM, Mark Webb-Johnson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I've found a couple of manufacturers willing to do this for a reasonable price (at a quantity of perhaps 50 to 100 units).
>>>>>
>>>>> Is the specification below ok? Any problems?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards, Mark.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11 Nov, 2012, at 1:36 PM, Mark Webb-Johnson <mark at webb-johnson.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK, so I think the pinouts we require are as per Michael B's diagram:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <OVMS-OBD2-cable.png>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> J1962-M DB9-F Signal
>>>>>> 4 3 Chassis/Power GND
>>>>>> 6 7 CAN-H
>>>>>> 14 2 CAN-L
>>>>>> 16 9 +12V Vehicle Power
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A right angle J1962-M plug and about 1metre cable should be ok.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This one cable should support both Twizy and Volt/Ampera, and also any ODBII car with an ODBII compliant CAN bus.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does that sound ok?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll ask around in China to see if I can find someone to make these up cheaply, and get them on Fasttech.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards, Mark.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11 Nov, 2012, at 7:50 AM, Michael Balzer <dexter at expeedo.de> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For the record: I now have connected GND to both 4+5 on the OBD2 plug, works as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 10.11.2012 19:57, schrieb mikeljo at me.com:
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i use this pinout:
>>>>>>>> Primary Data Link Connector- (DLC) X84 *Under drivers side of IP
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pin 1 is Low Speed GMLAN (SWCAN ~33.3kbps) - Body Electrical Services Only Pin 2-3 Unused
>>>>>>>> Pin 4 chassis ground (for scan tool)
>>>>>>>> Pin 5 data reference ground
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pins 6(+) & 14 (-) High Speed GMLAN- Primary Powertrain Bus (DWCAN ~500 kbps) Pins 7-11 Unused
>>>>>>>> Pins 12(+) & 13(-) High Speed GMLAN- Chassis Expansion Bus (DWCAN ~500 kbps) Pin 15 Unused
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pin 16 B+ (for scan tool power)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OBDII
>>>>>>>> Sub-D
>>>>>>>> Signal
>>>>>>>> 16
>>>>>>>> 9
>>>>>>>> +12V
>>>>>>>> 4
>>>>>>>> 6+3
>>>>>>>> GND-Chassis
>>>>>>>> 6
>>>>>>>> 7
>>>>>>>> CAN_H
>>>>>>>> 14
>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>> CAN_L
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I connect 6 and 3 at the Sub-D side together.
>>>>>>>> So it looks like we can use the same Cable (for the Primary Can Bus in the Volt). >> Fasttech?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bye
>>>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Am 10.11.2012 um 06:47 schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson <mark at webb-johnson.net>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, chassis GND vs signal GND, but can is differential, so no GND needed for the signal. We only need GND for 12V power. For vehicles, I think chassis GND is ok.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think Volt bus we are using is on the same pins:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.evtools.info/ChevyVoltOBD2CAN.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Maybe 1 cable can do both?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards, Mark
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 10 Nov, 2012, at 12:18 PM, Michael Balzer <dexter at expeedo.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mark,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> yes, that's chassis ground -- shouldn't it be? I interpreted the OVMS GND as the ground for the supply voltage (12V), as the CAN bus has its dedicated "low" line.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I just looked up some OBD2 sites: 4+5 normally are the same. One page says an OBD2 cable should have identical potential on 4 and 5 to ensure proper function. Another OBD2 cable I bought connects them, so maybe for a general product GND should connect both, but I don't think there's a difference on the car side... normally.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But I've also seen some info on non standard OBD2 plugs, also for some GM and Opel cars, having other signals where the CAN bus should be, so I'm also interested in your pinout, Michael J.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Am 10.11.2012 04:23, schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:
>>>>>>>>>>> Michael,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> One question: you have GND on pin #4 (odb). I have that shown as chassis ground, not signal ground. Is that correct?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Michael J: is that the same connector and pins as you are using for the Volt?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, Mark
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 10 Nov, 2012, at 2:16 AM, Michael Balzer <dexter at expeedo.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> great to hear about user activity :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) I just created an OVMS to OBD2 cable image and checked it in:
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/dexterbg/Open-Vehicle-Monitoring-System/commit/a7c3a3e8f12d7759b896bb75c8e570ebc10ec11a
>>>>>>>>>>>> As OBD2 is standard incl. CAN pinout, this should be valid for any OBD2 port, so could be added to the FastTech OVMS product line. It's not a standard cable, or at least none I know of.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) No known way up to now. I also think the Twizy would not respond to the port, as the whole CAN bus is quiet when the car is off and not charging. Plus, because the charger draws some 30-35 W for many hours after charging has completed, many drivers use auto-power-off sockets.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) I'll forward your specification to the german Twizy forum.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Am 09.11.2012 15:23, schrieb Mark Webb-Johnson:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Twizy support seems to be coming along nicely, thanks to the amazing work Michael is doing. Some good functionality there already.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm starting to see some Twizy users register on openvehicles.com. Perhaps the word is getting out?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some questions / requests:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael: Can you let me have the details on the cable pinouts and parts you are using at the moment? Is it a standard cable, or are you having to make something up?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> How is charge control on the Twizy done? Is there any way of stopping or starting (topup) a charge from within the car, or is it just controlled by plugging? Any chance of can bus control of this?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can anyone help with the car images for the Twizy? There are lots of nice images available, but they need to be photoshopped to the right dimensions and transparent background png.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, Mark.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Balzer * Paradestr. 8 * D-42107 Wuppertal
>>>>>>>>>>>> Fon 0202 / 272 2201 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
>>>>>>>>>>>> <dexter.vcf>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Michael Balzer * Paradestr. 8 * D-42107 Wuppertal
>>>>>>>>>> Fon 0202 / 272 2201 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
>>>>>>>>>> <dexter.vcf>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Michael Balzer * Paradestr. 8 * D-42107 Wuppertal
>>>>>>> Fon 0202 / 272 2201 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
>>>>>>> <dexter.vcf>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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> --
> Michael Balzer * Paradestr. 8 * D-42107 Wuppertal
> Fon 0202 / 272 2201 * Handy 0176 / 206 989 26
> <dexter.vcf>_______________________________________________
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